By now, most of you know that Norton and I disagree on which bases were used when assembling the WWI Marine sniper rifles. Disagreement is healthy, as the end result is typically a better perspective of any issue. You can read Norton’s version here:
https://winchestercollector.org/foru...er-rifles-wwi/
Pay particular attention to the documents Mr. Norton claims proves the Marine sniper rifles had "Springfield Marine" bases. I have read and re-read these documents, and nowhere in any of them does it say the Marines ordered "Springfield Marine" bases for their rifles. Please judge for yourself.
I am going to present an alternative path to determining what bases were on these rifles. There were three Marine orders for scopes to be mounted on '03 Springfield’s the Marines supplied. The first order was for A. O. Niedner to install scopes on 1500 rifles. But the 5th Regiment was to muster in Philly in June, so Major Holcomb needed enough scoped rifles to equip the 5th before they departed for France. Major McDougal and Major Daulty Smith contracted with Niedner to scope 150 rifles at Philly for that purpose. Niedner installed the scopes with modified mounts and Niedner taper bases on 150 rifles and went on vacation. Unfortunately for Niedner, he was investigated for making treasonous statements, and that ended his involvement with the Marines. Subsequently, two orders were placed with WRA to mount scopes on a total of 750 rifles, with all 750 rifles being delivered to the Marines by 22 Oct 17.
No document exists that details the type of scope bases installed by WRA, other than comments such as "as approved by Holcomb" or "special Marine mounting" or "Marine Standard Mount". Thus the task at hand is to determine, by alternate means, exactly which bases were ordered. Holcomb approved modified #2 mounts and Niedner taper bases for the Niedner rifles. If the 500 rifle order from WRA were to be as approved by Holcomb, they had to be Marine Mounts with Niedner tapered bases, as there was no reason, or advantage, to change to a substandard OEM WRA #2 mount with thumbscrew "Springfield Marine" bases he and others had been replacing on rifle team rifles from as far back as 1916.
I first looked at the available documentation, which was limited at the time. Thanks to Smokeeaterpilot, there are plenty of documents available now. Since I could find no document detailing which bases were ordered, I looked closely at what accessories were ordered by both the Marines and the Army in their orders for sniper rifles "just like the Marines". It was what was not listed as replacement parts and tools that stood out. No thumbscrews were ordered with the rifles even though it was well known that the thumbscrews were easily lost, which made the rifle useless as a scoped sniper rifle. They weren't included in the order because the scope mounts had no thumbscrews.
I decided to look at the one item that exists, to any degree, today. The existing named scope cases and their scopes. These are the issued sniper scope cases that the sniper adorned with his name and matching rifle serial number. The scopes still have their mounts intact, which indicates which bases were installed.
We have all seen these scopes and cases on eBay, gun shows, and auction sites. I have owned three of them myself. I sold two of them, regrettably. I noticed that many of the scope cases being sold were emblazoned with the original sniper’s name and the sniper rifle’s serial number. I began to collect all the data I could find on the scope cases, including pictures. I traced each of the snipers, from the scope case names, through their Marine military careers using the Marine Muster Rolls on Ancestry.com. I discovered they all congregated at two locations at the same time. One location was OSD, which I expected. The second location was Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (GITMO), which I had not expected. I also noticed that the GITMO Commanding Officer was none other than Maj. Garland Fay, the fabled Captain of the 1916 Marine Rifle Team, considered by many as one of the finest teams ever assembled. The rest of the search was a long period of searching for the reason all those snipers were gathering at GITMO. I quickly found the following article.
The prospective snipers being gleaned from the Caribbean were making a stopover at Guant?namo. After much searching, I discovered that Major Fay had started a sniper school at Deer Point, Cuba, location of the GITMO rifle range.
The Cuban Connection - Annotated.jpgI also unearthed a plan by four Marine rifle team members to design the best sniper rifle possible, and start a sniper school at GITMO that would be used to recruit expert riflemen from the Caribbean Marines to be snipers. Since OSD wasn?t opening until June 1918, Major Fay started a sniper school at GITMO in March 1918. Fay was training snipers while waiting for the proposed OSD Scout-Observer-Sniper School to open its doors. Oddly enough, this can be proven using a sniper’s death roll.
Excerpt from WW Ipson's Death Certificate - Annotated.jpg
Pvt. Ipson was at Deer Point during the period 27 Mar 18 to 29 April 18 and L. A. Clapp was a Marine rifle team coach also at GITMO. Pvt. Ipson received his sniper training at GITMO under Major Fay. Leslie LaValley's diary gives day to day records of the training from the day of initial issue of the sniper rifles, which was 4 Mar 18.
All intriguing, but this post is about the scope cases, the scopes, and their serial numbers. I have accumulated a substantial list of known snipers and their rifle serial numbers, about half from scope cases, with the rest from other sources such as museums, archives, and various books and documents. The serial numbers form three groups, the last two groupings being less distinct than the first. The first grouping of serial numbers roughly covers 610,000 to 625,000. These are thought to be the Niedner scoped rifles. The second group is from 638,000 to 662,000, and is believed to be the 1st WRA order for 500 rifles to be scoped. The third group is loosely defined as 670,000 to 695,000, and is believed to be the 2nd WRA order for 250 rifles to be scoped by WRA ordered by Major McDougal.
The interesting part of the named scope cases is that they all contained scopes fitted with Marine Mounts for Niedner taper bases. I did see one scope case on eBay that contained a scope with #2 mounts with ?Springfield Marine? thumbscrew type bases. Its micro-dial graduations were painted white, which means the scope was made after 1926; so that case was not included in the count.
Using the Marine Muster Rolls, I tracked every named scope case sniper back to either Gitmo, OSD, or both. It really wasn't necessary, as I only needed to verify one sniper rifle issued that day as having Niedner taper bases. If one rifle had them, they all had them. Anyone who has been in the Marine Corps can tell you that in the Marines, everything is exactly alike down to your skivys. I suspect they don't have Short Arm Inspections anymore in the new Marine Corps, but in my day it was a pretty regular occurrence. Well, I got caught not wearing skivys during a Short Arm Inspection at Camp Margarita. I was severely punished. If you have never spit shined a filthy trash can, you haven't lived. If you have never stood at attention on the parade deck at Camp Margarita with your Johnson swaying in the breeze, you haven't lived. Back to business.
From LaValley?s diary, I knew he was issued a sniper rifle, scope and case on 4 Mar 18 at GITMO. I located his relatives, specifically his son, Jim LaValley, now deceased. LaValley's scope and case had become available for sale, and a friend of mine wanted to buy it. Jim had sold his dad’s scope and case, but he was able to confirm the scope and case for sale was indeed his dad's. That scope had Niedner taper bases. The rifles issued on 4 Mar 18 had Niedner taper bases, not thumbscrew #2 mounts with "Springfield Marine" bases as claimed by some confused individuals.
I am going to post pictures of some of the named scope cases along with the names of the sniper to whom it was issued. All of these scope cases contained scopes with Niedner taper bases - no exceptions. I am going to post only ten cases, because it is a pain in the rear to set them up for posting, as I am no computer geek.
Let us begin.
- Sgt. Leslie D. LaValley - Rifle was issued on 4 Mar 18 at Deer Point, Cuba by Major Fay when LaValley gave up his promotion to Corporal to be a sniper. Snipers were Privates. LaValley became a sniper Instructor at OSD before he went to France with the 11th Regiment.
LaValley Scope Case - Annotated.jpg
The serial number of LaValley's rifle places it in the second group, which is believed to be the 500 rifle order Major Holcomb placed with WRA, for riflles with Marine Mounts and taper bases "as approved by Holcomb". Holcomb would become Commander of the 2/6, and Major Douglas McDougal would assume his position as Inspector of Target Practice.
- Gunner Steve Estock - Rifle was issued on 4 Mar 18 at Deer Point, Cuba by Major Fay. Gunner Estock would later become an officer after attending OSD’s Officer Candidate School, as well as being an Instructor at the S-O-S School. Estock was from Alabama, and lived near my hometown, but I never knew him. Note the film inside the cap that has elevation data for the rifle. Not all the cases had this film.
Estock Scope Case - Annotated.jpg
- Pvt. William W. Ipson - Rifle was issued on 4 Mar 18. Ipson would later die of pneumonia in France. Ipson received his sniper training at Deer Point, Cuba in the first class. Ipson's death certificate conclusively indicates that there was indeed a sniper school at Deer Point, Cuba as shown above. The serial number of Ipson's sniper rifle places it in the second group of the WRA order for 500 rifles to be scoped. The scope has Niedner taper bases.
Pvt. WW Ipson's Scope Case - Annotated.jpg
I ave reached my pic limit - next post.