SA new prod. rifles w/ RIA parts

[usmartial1950]

I've come to realize, unfortunately, that much of what one reads and hears about the '03 is just plain wrong. One source in particular presents itself with great certainty but is apparently based primarily on conjecture. One area I would appreciate some clarification in is the use of RIA components, circa 1927-28, in the assembly of new production and /or rebuilt SA rifles. Any insight into what might be legitimately encountered would be greatly appreciated.

[cplnorton]

Someone like John or Andrew could probably add more on the Army side. I mainly focus on the Marine aspect of the 1903. But the 1927-28 period for the Marines was a interesting one as the Marines swapped 10,000 1903 barreled receivers with RIA in that time period.

The other interesting fact at the tail end of this timeframe is when the Marines started to receive large shipments of just plain barrels to rebarrel their receivers.

So you just have a large amount of activity in this time period for the Marines in rebuilding their 1903 rifles, and I'm sure that has some bearing.

[cplnorton]

Are you just trying to research one rifle in general?

[Rick the Librarian]

I've come to realize, unfortunately, that much of what one reads and hears about the '03 is just plain wrong. One source in particular presents itself with great certainty but is apparently based primarily on conjecture. One area I would appreciate some clarification in is the use of RIA components, circa 1927-28, in the assembly of new production and /or rebuilt SA rifles. Any insight into what might be legitimately encountered would be greatly appreciated.

I assume you are mentioning the so-called RIA/SA "hybrids"? If so, they really do exist. In mid-1919, Rock Island Arsenal ceased manufacturing complete rifles. C.S. Ferris in his book on the RIA M1903 mentions that in 1926, about 25,600 receivers were sent to Springfield Armory. These were in different "shapes and forms" - many were complete and finished receivers with markings and serial numbers, some with just markings with no serial numbers; others which were complete but no markings and, finally, raw forgings.

Springfield Armory used these and other parts received from Rock Island, to make complete rifles in the 1927 to 1929 era. John Beard has said that about 50% of receivers in the (RIA) 375,000-405,000 serial range were in this category and about 75%+ in the 405,000-430,000 were, also.

It is fairly common to come across RIA receivers in the above serial ranges with Springfield barrels in the 1927 to 1929 range to be original. If original, these "hybrids" will have a mix of Springfield and Rock Island parts from that period.

To me, the most fascinating are the 1200-1500 receivers which were sent to Springfield with RIA markings and no serial numbers. They were giving "high number" Springfield serial numbers in the 1,290,000-1,299,000 range. Here's a picture of mine below:

IMG_1324 (2) (1024x658).jpg

[03collector]

That is a great rifle. What kind of proofs are on the wood. If any also whats the barrel date. I have been looking for one a long time.

[Rick the Librarian]

The RIA with the Springfield "numbers" is one of about 1200 similar receivers, or so I have been told. The barrel is a SA 12-28 with a very thin stamp. The stock has virtually no markings on it - obviously a grasping groove. The handguard is a Springfield "high hump" (fixuring slot on the inside). The bolt is a case-hardened I5 from before WWI. The rear sight is probably Springfield.

It has been the second one I've seen "in person". The other was at a gunshow several years back that had been slightly sporterized.

IMG_1319 (1024x259).jpgIMG_1323 (1024x382).jpgIMG_1325 (583x1024).jpgIMG_1329 (1024x663).jpgIMG_1330 (1024x683).jpg

[03collector]

The closest one I saw was a high numbered RIA receiver about 418000 or 420000 range with a 11- 28 barrel date. With the same type stock. I think that is a interesting variation in the 03 springfield. Thanks for sharing.

[Rick the Librarian]

Yes, one of my favorites, as well. I had another RIA/SA hybrid, which I got from CMP in the early 2000s. RIA 413,950 with a 3.29 SA barrel. I sold that one when a Red Star Remington caught my eye.

I also have two more that relate to our discussion -- another Springfield, 1,294,444, whose receiver was either a finished RIA one or a rough forging.

The other is a NRA Sporter with a 1,295,379 serial number. John Beard told me that just about any 1,290,000 range Springfield has a receiver that started out at Rock Island.

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Re: Spring Island Armory 03's.

A couple of years back, I lucked into an 03 with a Nov 1918 Springfield receiver, and an RIA Nov 1918 barrel; and mix master ww2 rebuild bits. with a scant stock with only the (P) mark. Which according to comon knowledge here, indicates a *probable* USMC active life. I emailed cplnorton the sn, and he wasn't able to identify any user organization(s), but replied that it certainly was in the range of sn's issued to the USMC.. With some close by hits, that said Mare Island, Bourne Field MCAS, St Thomas, VI, Nicaragua, or Iona Island USN Ammo Depot,NY up by USMA West Point.

That being said, you can also imagine the non-frontline vessels of the US Army, US Navy, US Coast Guard, that were issued 03's removed from units and vessels that receiver the M-1 Garands, and M-1 Carbines for their Master-At-Arms and Naval Guards.

R. Brown

[twh]

Here is one of the other two types Rick referenced