Low Number '03 catastrophic failure- recent.

[Vern Humphrey]

In the example given, how does the carbon precipitate out and the outside remain unburnt? The inside cannot be hotter than the outside of a piece of metal heated from the outside.

Anyone that has grilled a steak knows this.

Nothing is actually "burnt" in the sense that a log is burnt in the fireplace. The carbon precipitates out throughout the steel, not just on the interior -- in other words, the metallic structure of the steel is changed to a mixture of carbon and iron, rather than an alloy.

The simplest way of determining the correct temperature for quenching steel is to test the hot metal with a magnet -- when the steel loses it's magnetic properties, it's time to quench. Heating beyond that point can cause the carbon to disassociate from the iron.

[Vern Humphrey]

This may help:

Steel is an alloy of iron and other elements, primarily carbon, widely used in construction and other applications because of its high tensile strength and low cost. The base metal, iron, is able to take on two crystalline forms, body centered cubic and face centered cubic, depending on its temperature. It is the interaction of those allotropes with the alloying elements, primarily carbon, that gives steel and cast iron their range of unique properties. In the body-centred cubic arrangement, there is an additional iron atom in the centre of each cube, and in the face-centred cubic, there is one at the center of each of the six faces of the cube. Carbon, other elements, and inclusions within iron act as hardening agents that prevent the movement of dislocations that otherwise occur in the crystal lattices of iron atoms.

[Griff Murphey]

I think you mis-remember. The correct figure is 48,000.

I had previously donned sack cloth and ashes for that goof on 6-09. I was thinking muzzle velocity 2800 fps. At least that is my excuse for brain fade.

[blackhawknj]

I don't have my copy of Hatcher in front of me but IIRC he found there were a few bad batches several years apart, the old story that the problem was due to new workers hired for increase wartime production is just a story. I have also read that Pershing insisted that his troops spend as much time on the rifle range as possible, it seems to me a lot of those LNs were worked hard. There was quite a controversy over the 7th round stoppage in the M-1 Rifle until Garand pointed out they had followed his design correctly.

[JimF]

. . . . . There was quite a controversy over the 7th round stoppage in the M-1 Rifle until Garand pointed out they had followed his design correctly.

Actually, armory workers did NOT follow Garand's design correctly!

The barrel boring in the front of the receiver went in too far . . . clipping the forward rib on the left side! --Jim

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Slamfire

Who are these mysterious "deniers"?

Rather than give opinions of others, give the real time data. This is my collection of data. Do you know of any others by serial number? Note the descrepencies in Hatcher's Data from his notebook. My data came from the actual armory reports Hatcher used. Hatcher seems to have been prone to error.

jt

			Failed 1903 Springfields		92 receiver failures
			Jim Tarleton
#	Cause	SA	RIA	Date	Receiver Damage	Where/Why/How	Source
1	Bbl Burst	193825		February 24, 1908		CO D 28TH INF (BBL BURST)	SRS
2	Bbl Burst	35630		February 26, 1908		CO A 27TH INF (BBL BURST)	SRS
3	Bbl Burst	51514		March 23, 1908		CO A, 27TH INF - BBL BURST	SRS
4	Bbl Burst		17397	June 8, 1908		ILL NG (BBL BURST)	SRS
5	Bbl Burst		7918	November 19, 1908		ILL NG (BBL BURST)	SRS
6			25589	November 21, 1908	25589	93RD CO CAC (BURST)	SRS
7	Bbl Burst		10806	December 4, 1908		TRP G 2ND CAV (BBL BURST)	SRS
8			114866	January 23, 1909	114866	BURST DURING TARGETING	SRS
9	Bbl Burst	286305		June 5, 1909		DC NG (BBL BURST)	SRS
10		67521		March 29, 1910	67521	BURST	SRS
11			39816	April 15, 1910	39816	BURST	SRS
12			44855	June 7, 1910	44855	BURST	SRS
13			45248	June 8, 1910	45248	BURST	SRS
14			20923	September 25, 1910	20923	ILL NG (BURST)	SRS
15			114985	December 19, 1910	114985	14TH INF (BURST)	SRS
16	Burnt	89728		January 1, 1917	89728	Broke	Hatcher
17	Burnt	486640		January 1, 1917	486640	Broke	Hatcher
18	Ammo	573104		January 1, 1917		Bolt and lugs stripped	Hatcher
19	Burnt	UNK		January 1, 1917	UNK	Fractured Receiver	Hatcher
20		UNK		January 1, 1917	UNK	Broke	Hatcher
21	Burnt	UNK		January 1, 1917	UNK	Shattered Receiver	Haycher
22	Bbl/Obstrctn		138978	May 21, 1917		Muzzle blew off & bbl split entire length in 2 places due to obstrctn in bore	Hatcher
23	Ammo	656701		July 16, 1917	656701	Fractured Receiver	Hatcher
24	Ammo	312249		July 20, 1917	312249	Fractured Receiver	Hatcher
25	??	89720		August 1, 1917	89720	Burst receiver - Trp E 1st Cavalry	Hatcher
26	??	UNK		August 15, 1917	UNK	Burst Receiver	Hatcher
27	Ammo		223235	September 18, 1917	223235	Fractured Receiver - did not shatter	Hatcher
28	Burnt	UNK		September 19, 1917	UNK	Shattered Receiver	Hatcher
29	??	547854		October 8, 1917		Barrel blew off - previously classified as "UNK"	Hatcher
30	Ammo	573697		November 6, 1917		Bolt and lugs stripped	SRS/Hatcher
31	Ammo	632817		November 6, 1917		Bolt and lugs stripped	SRS/Hatcher
32	Bad BbL		108448	December 1, 1917		Barrel Burst - poor steel - 150th Inf	Hatcher
33	Ammo	278671		January 1, 1918		Backfired-Camp Shelby-repaired w/1917 bbl	Hatcher
34	Ammo		165282	January 1, 1918	165282	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby-unhardened	Hatcher
35	Ammo		224554	January 1, 1918	224554	Backfired-Camp Shelby	Hatcher
36	Ammo		225764	January 1, 1918	225764	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby	Hatcher
37	Ammo		239356	January 1, 1918	239356	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby	Hatcher
38	Ammo		239754	January 1, 1918	239754	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby-bad steel stock	Hatcher
39	Ammo		240914	January 1, 1918	240914	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby-bad steel stock	Hatcher
40	Ammo		253241	January 1, 1918	253241	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby	Hatcher
41	Ammo		262165	January 1, 1918	262165	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby	Hatcher
42	Ammo	445136		January 1, 1918	445136	Burst Receiver-Camp Shelby-bad steel stock	Hatcher
43		108448		January 7, 1918	108448	CAMP SHELBY (BURST)	SRS
44	Burnt		117794	January 17, 1918	117794	Brkn firing pin rod-premature exp-burnt	Hatcher
45			217794	January 17, 1918	217794	Fractured Receiver	Hatcher
46		486460		January 29, 1918	486460	BURST NAVY RIFLE	SRS
47		572301		January 29, 1918	572301	BURST NAVY RIFLE	SRS
48		572323		January 29, 1918	572323	BURST NAVY RIFLE	SRS
49		573528		January 29, 1918	573528	BURST NAVY RIFLE	SRS
50		573744		January 29, 1918	573744	BURST NAVY RIFLE	SRS
51		609		February 1, 1918	609	USN (Receiver failed)	SRS
52	Ammo	501719		February 20, 1918	501719	Failed	Hatcher
53	Bad Bbl	141157		March 1, 1918		Split barrel-Camp Bowie, Tx	Hatcher
54	Ammo/Brk Bolt	276691		March 17, 1918		Bolt face blown off due to ruptured case/excessive pressure	Hatcher
55	Bad Bbl	723664		May 1, 1918		Split barrel	Hatcher
56	??	200512		June 1, 1918	200512	Shattered Receiver-bolt & receiver shattered	Hatcher
57	Bad Bbl	658742		June 1, 1918		Burst Barrel	Hatcher
58		501719		September 17, 1918	501719	Failed in service	SRS
59	Ammo	222223		October 19, 1918	222223	Burst due to defective ammo-Bat E 139th FA	SRS
60	Bad Steel	662284		February 22, 1919	662284	RECEIVER BURST - bad steel stock	Htchr/SRS
61		662263		April 12, 1919	662263	RECEIVER BURST	SRS List
62	Bad Steel	666263		April 12, 1919	666263	Shattered Receiver - bad steel stock	Hatcher
63	Ammo	712363		May 1, 1919	712363	Fractured Receiver-shell casing blew out of rifle	Hatcher
64	Bbl Split		297591	June 4, 1919		Bbl split when blank cartridge fired behind bore obstruction	Hatcher
65	Ammo		101200	May 23, 1920	101200	Shattered Receiver-bad ammo	Hatcher
66	Ammo		203851	June 16, 1920	203851	Shattered Receiver-bad ammo	Hatcher
67	Bbl/Obstrctn	167204		July 19, 1920		Obstruction in bore-bbl burst	Hatcher
68	Bbl Burst	365338		August 6, 1920		CO E 23RD INF (BBL BURST)	SRS
69	Bad Bbl	608408		January 1, 1921		Barrel burst due to bad steel	Hatcher
70	Handload		177232	May 1, 1921	177232	Failed due to handload & SHT receiver	Hatcher
71	Bad Bbl	607222		June 2, 1921		Barrel Burst under rear frsb- poor steel - 150th Inf	Hatcher
72	Ammo	770160		July 13, 1921	770160	Shattered Receiver-excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
73	Open bolt/Fired	1215353		July 28, 1921		Hang fire allowed time to open bolt as it fired, breaking bolt/recevier not damaged	Hatcher
74	Ammo	70971		August 1, 1921	70971	Fractured Receiver-soft case & SHT	Hatcher
75	Greased ammo	UNK		August 12, 1921	UNK	Greased ammo-Philippine Rifle Team/receiver failed	Hatcher
76	8mm Rnd	UNK		November 24, 1921	UNK	Shattered Receiver	Hatcher
77	Bbl/Obstrctn	379004		January 1, 1922		Barrel burst due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
78	Bbl/Obstrctn	459881		January 1, 1922		Barrel burst due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
79	Bad Bbl	759943		August 16, 1922		Chamber blew out due to burnt steel in bbl	Hatcher
80	Ammo		146184	September 16, 1922	146184	Shattered Receiver-due to firing rifle grande	Hatcher
81	Ammo	946508		January 1, 1923	946508	Deformed Receiver & Bolt-excessive pressure	Hatcher
82	Bbl/Obstrctn	1093941		January 1, 1923		Barrel split due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
83	Ammo		234466	January 1, 1923	234466	Shattered Receiver-excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
84	Ammo		235742	January 1, 1923	235742	Shattered Receiver-excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
85	Bad Bbl	971779		January 1, 1923		Barrel failed due to a lap in the barrel	Hatcher
86	Ammo		104926	April 30, 1923	104926	Shattered Receiver due to very excessive pressure	Hatcher
87	Bbl Split	523089		May 1, 1923		Barrel split at chamber due to burnt metal	Hatcher
88	Ammo	642742		May 9, 1923	642742	Fractured Receiver due to excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
89	Bad Bbl	1254701		May 18, 1923		Barrel burst at chamber-burnt barrel	Hatcher
90	Bbl/Obstrctn	970762		May 23, 1923		Bullet was stuck in bore-split barrel	Hatcher
91	Ammo	284086		July 11, 1923	284086	Shattered Receiver from excessive headspace & pressure & SHT	Hatcher
92	Bbl/Obstructn	655360		July 24, 1923		No defect-obstruction in bore-barrel burst	Hatcher
93	Ammo		250560	October 27, 1923	250560	Receiver broke at barrel due to excessive pressure	Hatcher
94	Bbl/Obstrctn	335258		January 1, 1924		Barrel bulged due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
95	Ammo	625587		January 1, 1924	625587	Failed while testing ammo that blew up 2 RIA's	Hatcher
96		UNK		May 1, 1924		Bolt blown out-SHT-7th Cavalry	Hatcher
97	Bad Bbl		90101	June 1, 1924		Barrel ruptured due to seam	Hatcher
98	Ammo		UNK	August 16, 1924	UNK	Shattered Receiver due to annealed case & SHT	Hatcher
99	Bad Bbl	78745		September 8, 1924	78745	Split barrel due to pipe-receiver split also	Hatcher
100	Brkn FP	228112		September 15, 1924	228112	Fractured Receiver due to firing while closing bolt	Hatcher
101	Bbl Split	90489		October 28, 1924		Muzzle stuck in ground then fired, split barrel from rec to lower band	Hatcher
102	Ammo	642675		December 5, 1924	642675	Shattered Receiver due to excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
103	Bbl Split	1004623		January 1, 1925		1 1/2" crack over chamber in barrel	Hatcher
104	Rifle Grenade	468300		February 6, 1925	468300	Shattered Receiver due to firing rifle grenade	Hatcher
105	Ammo	195082		March 4, 1925	195082	Shattered Receiver due to excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
106	Bbl/Obstructn	613496		March 10, 1925		CO I 20TH INF (BBL BURST) - bullet in bore	SRS
107	Ammo	206331		April 24, 1925	206331	Shattered Receiver due to failed cartridge case & SHT	Hatcher
108	Bad Bbl	523444		May 21, 1925		Barrel blew apart due to burnt steel	Hatcher
109	Ammo		170805	June 5, 1925	170805	Defective ammo & SHT	Hatcher
110	Bbl/Obstrctn		146554	June 10, 1925	146554	Fractured Receiver due to bullet lodged in bore & SHT	Hatcher
111	Bbl/Obstrctn	858256		August 13, 1925		Barrel split due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
112	8mm Rnd	1198207		October 17, 1925		Firing pin rod blown out and floorplate blown off & stock shattered	Hatcher
113	Bbl Split	1201472		November 20, 1925		Barrel split firing tracers-defective bbl steel	Hatcher
114	Ammo	299458		November 27, 1925	299458	Shattered Receiver due to failed cartridge case & SHT	Hatcher
115	Bbl/Obstrctn	107317		January 1, 1926		Bbl bulged 50% due to obstruction	Hatcher
116	Ammo	84685		April 13, 1926	84685	Shattered Receiver due to excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
117	Bbl Split	735791		June 28, 1926		Barrel split due to defective steel	Hatcher
118	Frd w/Blt open		111621	July 1, 1926	111621	Shattered Receiver due to firing before bolt was closed & SHT	Hatcher
119	Bbl/Obstrctn	863426		July 11, 1926		Bbl burst near breach due to obstruction - receiver damaged	Hatcher
120	Exc Hdspace	173807		August 15, 1926	173807	Receiver split from rifle due to excessive headspace & SHT	Hatcher
121	8mm Ammo	43076		August 19, 1926	43076	Receiver shatterd due to firing 8mm ammo in rifle	Hatcher
122	Burnt	UNK		September 11, 1926	UNK	Shattered Receiver	Hatcher
123	Bbl/Obstrctn	UNK		September 11, 1926	UNK	Receiver failed - guard cartridge (unsrvcble) fired behind lodged bullet	Hatcher
124	Ammo/Brittle		204801	October 21, 1926	204801	Shattered Receiver firing guard cartridge/excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
125	Oil in Chamber	1216664		November 14, 1926	1216664	Oil in chamber/1921 Match Ammo/lugs set back/stock shattered	Hatcher
126	Bbl/Obstrctn	745779		January 1, 1927		Bbl split due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
127	Bbl/Obstrctn		186047	January 1, 1927		Bbl bulged & cracked to to bore obstruction while hunting	Hatcher
128	Bbl/Obstrctn	857791		May 7, 1927		Blew out magazine base, shattered stock, no damage to receiver apparent	Hatcher
129	Ammo	816284		May 23, 1927		Bolt head broken, magazine buldged, stk shatterd due to excssve pressure	Hatcher
130	Brittle Bolt	201595		June 1, 1927		Bolt blew out/brittle bolt	Hatcher
131	Bbl/Obstructn	600988		June 13, 1927		Buldged muzzle due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
132	Ammo	1248143		June 30, 1927		Floor plate blew out due to failed case head and bkkn bolt flange	Hatcher
133	Bbl Burst/Hndld	460371		July 1, 1927		Bbl burst 9" from muzzle from gallery handload due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
134	Ammo	874345		July 6, 1927		Stk shattered, buldged magazine due to failed case head	Hatcher
135	8mm Ammo	560852		July 13, 1927	560852	Shattered Receiver	Hatcher
136	Bbl/Obstrctn		16224	December 2, 1927		Bbl burst at muzzle due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
137	Open bolt/Fired	634479		February 3, 1928	634479	Shattered Receiver due to firing before bolt was closed due to broken firing pin	Hatcher
138	Avis Bbl Blew	1145956		May 25, 1928		Avis Bbl blew out at chamber	Hatcher
139	Bbl Split/Bad Ammo	467324		June 1, 1928		Bbl split due to bad ammo lot not authorized	Hatcher
140	Bbl/Obstrctn	500348		August 15, 1928		bbl buldged & split 9" from muzzle due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
141	Excessive Pressure	590480		August 15, 1928	590480	Fractured Receiver due to excessive pressure & SHT	Hatcher
142	Bbl/Obstrctn	267305		September 1, 1928		Bbl split from base to tip due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
143	Burnt Bbl	1137620		September 23, 1928		Bbl split at chamber due to burnt steel in barrel	Hatcher
144	8mm Ammo	801548		January 1, 1929	801548	Shattered Receiver due to firing 8mm ammo in rifle	Hatcher
145		235504		April 21, 1929	235504	Shattered Receiver	Hatcher
146	Case failure/pressure	951718		May 8, 1929	951718	Bulged receiver/broken bolt due to excessive pressure/case failure	Hatcher
147	Bbl/Obstrctn	235501		May 21, 1929	235501	Receiver ruptured due to obstruction in bore just ahead of chamber	Hatcher
148	Bad Bbl	1226267		June 1, 1929		Section of Bbl blew out due to improper manufacturing/burnt bbl	Hatcher
149	Bbl/Obstrctn	274272		June 1, 1929	274272	Shattered Receiver & bolt lugs sheared due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
150	Bbl/Obstrctn	723675		June 1, 1929	723675	Shattered Receiver & bolt broken due to obstruction in bore	Hatcher
151		73153		June 9, 1929	73153	Fractured Receiver	Hatcher
152	Ammo		73153	June 9, 1929	73153	Cartridge burst, causing receiver to fracture	Hatcher
153	Imp Assembly	326222		July 1, 1929	326222	Shattered Receiver-improper assembly & SHT	Hatcher
154	Ammo		87057	July 16, 1929	87057	Case failure, receiver had been bent subsequent to manufacture.rifle not hurt	Hatcher
155	Bbl/Obstrctn	119855		August 16, 1929		bbl split from muzzle to FRSB/obstruction in bore	Hatcher
156	Greased Round	711253		August 17, 1929	711253	Shattered Receiver & bolt due to grease on round	Hatcher
157	Bolt Blew/Bore Obstrctn	1255473		August 26, 1929		Bolt blown to pieces by obstruction in bore	Hatcher
158	Bbl/Obstrctn	1271923		September 3, 1929		Barrel burst at breech for 1 foot due to slag in bore	Hatcher
159	Bad Bbl	902871		October 29, 1929		Bbl blew out completely due to bad steel in manufacturing/burnt	Hatcher
160	Handloads	962540		August 15, 1965		Receiver had bolt lug imprint left from shooting handloads	CO Smith
161	Handloads	477779		May 10, 1933		Privately owned blew up w/52 r16 & 150 gr bullet, receiver separated with bbl	JB

[John Sukey]

All very interesting, but we did fight WW1 with low numbered recievers. I don't recall soldiers refusing to use the rifles.

[Fred]

Dang...! That's really good information! Thanks for sharing that!!!

[blackhawknj]

I note a number of burst barrels, obstructions in the bore, etc. And handloads.

[louis]

I noticed the same. Also not so many Rock Island.