The Army and DOJ have concerns [transferring 1911's to the CMP]

[PhillipM]

Well I didn't think they'd be happy about the possibility of us potential criminals getting 1911's. Wasn't the Army opposed to the CMP back in 1996?

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...Paper11May.pdf

INFORMATION PAPER11 May 2015SUBJECT: Legislative authority to transfer excess M1911A1 pistols to the Civilian MarksmanshipProgram (CMP).Purpose: To communicate Army concerns about expanding the scope of transfers to the CMP. DuringCommittee Markup of the FY16 NDAA, the HASC adopted an amendment allowing the U.S. Army totransfer excess .45 caliber M1911A1 pistols to CMP.Concerns: The Army and DOJ have concerns with this amendment and believe additional study isnecessary. Specifically, the Army is concerned about loss of accountability of weapons after transfer toCMP; expanding the scope of CMP’s mission to include handguns; and the potential negative impacts onpublic safety from the large amount of semi-automatic and concealable pistols that will be released forpublic purchase.Although CMP’s original charter, and current mission statement, include both rifle practice and firearmsafety, historically the program has only been provided rifles and associated spare parts and ammunition.If Congress intended for CMP’s firearm safety mission to include handguns or believed CMP should havethe authority to resale handguns to generate revenue to support other programs, it would have requiredthe Army to transfer the surplus M1911A1 inventory to CMP in 1996 when the program originally movedfrom the Army to the Corporation. (see 36 U.S.C. section 40728(a))DOJ has informally conveyed to the Army that it opposes the amendment and, in reviewing a similarprevious legislative proposal, has expressed the following three concerns: public safety, traceability, andapplicability of the Gun Control Act of 1968.o Public Safety – Although the provision does communicate that CMP cannot sell the firearmsto prohibited persons, the provision does not include a mechanism to verify and confirm theinformation obtained through private, internet or mail-order sales. There is no statutoryrequirement or record keeping obligation for CMP.o Traceability – There is a significant risk of approximately 100K semi-automatic handgunsthat are virtually untraceable, being released into commerce. Per DOJ, M1911 pistols arepopular crime guns. Over the last 10 years, they traced an average of 1,768 M1911 pistolswith a significant percentage (percentage not provided) ultimately identified as surplus U.S.military firearms. DOJ believes it would be a challenge to trace these firearms if used in acrime because there will likely be no record of origin and the seller (CMP) is not a licenseeand accordingly is not bound to keep records memorializing the transaction (both of whichare factors they also believe contribute to diminished public safety).o Applicability of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) – CMP (not a licensee) is currentlyauthorized to acquire and sell, without GCA interstate controls, .22 caliber rimfire and .30caliber surplus rifles, air rifles, associated ammunition, repair parts and other accouterments.The proposed legislation would allow them to acquire at least 100K M1911A1 semi-automaticpistols from DOD, and sell to the public. (The GCA regulates interstate commerce of firearmsby generally prohibiting interstate firearms transfers except among licensed manufacturers,dealers and importers.)Legislative History• National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (PL 104-106, Section 1601): “There isestablished a private, nonprofit corporation to be known as the Corporation for the Promotion of RiflePractice and Firearms Safety. The Secretary of the Army shall, in accordance with subSection (b),transfer to the Corporation all firearms and ammunition that on the day before the date of theenactment of this Act are under the control of the Director of the Civilian Marksmanship Program,including all firearms on loan to affiliated clubs and State associations;o all firearms in the possession of the Civilian Marksmanship Support Detachment; ando all M–1 Garand and caliber .22 rimfire rifles stored at Anniston Army Depot, Anniston, AL.The Secretary of the Army shall reserve for the Corporation the following All firearms referred to in Section 1615(a).o Ammunition for such firearms.o All M–16 rifles used to support the small arms firing school that are held by the Department of theArmy on the date of the enactment of this Act.o Any parts from, and accessories and accouterments for, surplus caliber .30 and caliber .22 rimfirerifles”.• John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (PL 109-364, Section 354)“The Secretary of the Army may recover from any country to which rifles, ammunition, repair parts, orother supplies described…furnished on a grant basis under the conditions imposed by Section 505 ofThe Foreign Assistance Act of 1961…” Any rifles, ammunition, repair parts, or suppliesrecovered…shall be available for transfer to the corporation….’’• Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010 (PL 111-118, Title VIII, Section 8019)“None of the funds available to the Department of Defense may be used to demilitarize or dispose ofM–1 Carbines, M–1 Garand rifles, M–14 rifles, .22 caliber rifles, .30 caliber rifles, or M–1911 pistols,or to demilitarize or destroy small arms ammunition or ammunition components that are not otherwiseprohibited from commercial sale under Federal law, unless the small arms ammunition or ammunitioncomponents are certified by the Secretary of the Army or designee as unserviceable or unsafe forfurther use”.• HASC Amendment: During HASC markup the Committee adopted an amendment allowing the U.S.Army to transfer excess .45 caliber M1911A1 pistols to CMP.Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP)The CMP is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible usesof firearms and air guns through gun safety training, marksmanship training, and competitions. The CMPis a federally chartered 501(c) (3) corporation that maintains two headquarters: CMP North at CampPerry near Port Clinton, Ohio, and CMP South in Anniston, Alabama. In accordance with U.S. ArmyGeneral Order 2012-01, the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Army serves as the Army’sliaison to the CMP.CMP HistoryIn 1903 President Theodore Roosevelt and Congress established the National Matches and the NationalBoard for the Promotion of Rifle Practice to support the idea that marksmanship skills developed throughregular practice and competition would contribute to the nation’s defense. When the program expandedto make its competitions and military support available to civilians, it became commonly known as the“Civilian Marksmanship Program”. As the U.S. Army’s interest in marksmanship diminished after WorldWar II, CMP increased its focus on fostering youth development through marksmanship. For over 90years the Army and Department of Defense administered the program until Congress created theCorporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearm Safety, Inc. in 1996.References- 36 U.S.C. 407, Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety- National Defense Authorization Act for FY 1996 (PL 104-106, Title XVI, Section 1601)- John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2007 (PL 109-364, Title III, Section 354)- DOD Appropriations Act, 2010 (PL 111-118, Title VIII, Section 8019)- U.S. Army General Order 2012-01- FY14 legislative proposal regarding M1911 pistols (Army sponsored)- FY16 legislative proposal regarding M1911 pistols (REP Mike Rogers sponsored)

[dave]

CMP is a rather recent thing, it was the DCM. Therefore to say " Army's interest in marksman diminished after WW11, CMP increased its focus on fostering youth----" is incorrect, unless you count 45 years or so as 'after WW11', at any rate it took a long time for that interest to 'diminish'!. I purchased my first MI in 1988, a .45 and a carbine and many 03's and 03A3 years before thru the DCM. (Had several friends, co-workers, who did not order 03's so I used their paper work and paid a slight premium). The name CMP was not used until 1996.
Do not know if Army was opposed to CMP in 1996, never heard that. I would think they would have been glad to get rid of it.
So is Rogers bill opposing the transfer or for it?

[PhillipM]

The bill is very much for it. It changes the wording of the CMP's charter to say "firearms" instead of 22 cal and 30 cal rifles, thereby opening up the way for them to receive 1911's. The bill is an add on to the huge national defense act and the act, as amended has made it out of committee.

http://www.guns.com/2015/05/08/house...s-through-cmp/

[dave]

Don't matter much to me, tho I would love to buy one. Afraid I will not be able to afford CMP prices. And what's left will be about worn out. Should have kept one I had, new in box, DCM opened box and stole xtra mag. Remington, probably a 3000 buck gun to-day! I can not imagine many being left, will probably be on auction for max bucks!

[Griff Murphey]

I would put in for the s/n I carried when I was on Frequent Wind. I have my custody card.

[Rick the Librarian]

With the present administration, the chances of this happening are slim and none. These pistols are probably heading for Captain Crunch.

[PhillipM]

With the present administration, the chances of this happening are slim and none. These pistols are probably heading for Captain Crunch.

Currently, they are forbidden to destroy 1911s.

While the military is prohibited by language in the 2015 Appropriations Act Continuing Resolution from spending any funds “demilitarize or dispose of M–1 Carbines, M–1 Garand rifles, M–14 rifles, .22 caliber rifles, .30 caliber rifles, or M–1911 pistols…”

http://www.guns.com/2015/05/13/doj-c...manship-group/

[PhillipM]

Don't matter much to me, tho I would love to buy one. Afraid I will not be able to afford CMP prices. And what's left will be about worn out. Should have kept one I had, new in box, DCM opened box and stole xtra mag. Remington, probably a 3000 buck gun to-day! I can not imagine many being left, will probably be on auction for max bucks!

This one, obviously upgraded by the new owner, is one of the ones given to law enforcement. Doesn't look worn out to me.