Fat (.310 - .311) Bullets in the 1917

[Ken in Iowa]

Good point on annealing the necks. With .311" bullets and standard 30/06 dies, we are overworking the necks a bit.

The same holds true with the 7.62x54r Russian cartridge. Many sizing dies are setup for .308" bullets. If using fatter .310" or .311" bullets, there is an option to use a larger expander ball.

My old Lyman 7.62x54r FL die is setup for .308" bullets. Instead of going the expander ball route, I purchased a Lyman "M" die for 31 caliber which was designed for 303 British. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/199...ProductFinding

I have been using this tool to expand the 30/06 brass that I have been using with the fat bullets. It works perfectly for this chore.

It looks to be another fine day in Iowa. I have the COAL test loads ready to go. I hope to get to the range this afternoon.

[RC20]

Good shooting, I am odd sift weekend and try to shoot today, errands and cloudy and cooler, maybe tomorrow (mine have not arrive yet)

I will see how my ordered 303s do, they will go in the slightly softer necks so may work fine.

I am using the older cases for the 1917 as it does not seem to care so much, have not had enough cycles in the newer cases ones to need to anneal.

I got a lot of 600 once fired RPs for 18 cents a case, adding a bunch of once fire RP range brass. Plan on getting the all prepped this winter (my brother has a Gerard trimmer setup for 30-06, so I don't hbave to hand trim with the Little Crow, we just do the whole lot in one easy go) and then shoot the whole summer (we shoot winter but neat nearly as much.)

I tend to shoot 50 or 75 yds as well. I think that result with irons sights is great, probably a 3/4 100 yd group if shooting a scope.

Plan on the fist group I shoot through the less capable Eddystone vs the Remington that shoots the 308s well (limitation being my eyes.

Will try on my Danish return, it’s a bit more worn, cool history going to Canada, to Denmark and then back to US (its got all the elements Ferris discusses in his 1917 book, neat to have one that fits it to a T like that)

[Ken in Iowa]

OK, we had a beautiful time at the range today. My test rounds were as follows;

FA57 GI Match cases- twice fired. CCI #200 primers. 46 gr IMR 4064. Hornady 174 gr .3105" (Actual .310") FMJBT

Test #1 .005" off the lands
Test #2 .025"
Test #3 .035"

I had goofed up on the seating die adjustment and did not load a batch at .015"

Test #1 was a bit odd. Group size was 1.8" with 2 shots in the same hole low and right from the other three. The two low shots were in the 10 ring.
Test #2 was nice. 4 of 5 shots grouped at .7" with 3 of them in the 10 ring. There was one high flyer that opened it up to 1.6".
Test #3 was all over the place. Group size was 3.4" in a vertical string.

I regret not having loaded .015" I suspect the optimal seating depth will be close to that number.

I know what the next test batch will be.

[RC20]

I may try a bit shorter on the next loadings. My 311s came in so have something to work with.
I am shooting 4350 exclusively so there may be powder preference in the spacing as well.

I think mine were .030 off the lands and I think closer was not doing so good, but that was also 308 diameter.

Never sure if the flyers are my eyes or something else!

Hope to get down next week. I had 1903 stuff loaded up, beautiful day let alone for Anchorage in October and the range was closed (Alaska day, aka former Seward day) drats, Not too many nice days left before snow flies and all too crisp!

[RC20]

I got 30 loaded up with 4350.

My Eddystone is not nearly as accurate as my Remington, it did ok with them, maybe a wash.

My Winchester Danish return which is the least accurate with 308s, did a lot better.

I got 4 inside of 1 3/8 at 75 yds (with a flyer which I have to measure)

I did not have a good sight picture as the sun was low and behind, not awful but not good with old eyes and the iron sights.

I think its worth experimenting with these, the Hornady being a shade small maybe better for it than the Sierra but maybe a wash as well.

they do come out pretty short to not stick in the lands. 3.200, I can't use (though may try) my depth gauge as the bullet is too large to fit the test shell.

[bruce]

OK, we had a beautiful time at the range today. My test rounds were as follows;

FA57 GI Match cases- twice fired. CCI #200 primers. 46 gr IMR 4064. Hornady 174 gr .3105" (Actual .310") FMJBT

Test #1 .005" off the lands
Test #2 .025"
Test #3 .035"

I had goofed up on the seating die adjustment and did not load a batch at .015"

Test #1 was a bit odd. Group size was 1.8" with 2 shots in the same hole low and right from the other three. The two low shots were in the 10 ring.
Test #2 was nice. 4 of 5 shots grouped at .7" with 3 of them in the 10 ring. There was one high flyer that opened it up to 1.6".
Test #3 was all over the place. Group size was 3.4" in a vertical string.

I regret not having loaded .015" I suspect the optimal seating depth will be close to that number.

I know what the next test batch will be.

With extreme respect, I've shot a few rifles over the years. Regardless of irons or scope used, the results you list above would give cause to take a look at bedding of the rifle. Have had some experience with the M-1917. Light weight bullets did not produce such nice results as I wanted. Often found that a flat based 180 gr. spitzer or roundnosed bullet gave very excellent results. Distinctly remember one Winchester M-1917 that was so so with most loads tried. Attention to the bedding and a bit of upward pressure under the barrel at the fore end of the stock eliminated issues such as you experienced in test 1,2,3... resulting in consistently round groups. Use of a Hornady 180 gr. RN bullet resulted in consistent sub- 1.5 inch groups for five strings of five shots at 100 yds. firing from a solid sandbag rest. HTH. Sincerely. bruce.

[steved66]

I missed this thread the first time around. Now that it's popped up again I figure I'd add my two cents since I have some experience shooting "fat" bullets in an M1917. My Eddystone with original 7-18 barrel has a bore that is pitted the entire length, which BTW was not in the description on GB. The first time I shot it I used Greek HXP surplus Ball ammo. I literally couldn't hit the 2ft x 3ft target frame at 50yds. Dejected, I got some advice on another forum about using low velocity, oversized cast lead reloads. I found that a .310 or .311 gas checked lead bullet propelled by Alliant 2400 did the trick but it requires the use of a polymer bead filler to keep the gas from cutting past the bullet. The result was a reasonable "plinking" group at 50yds. Along the way I read an entry on the Box-o-Truth website about using a .311 spitzer bullet to coax a respectable group from a pitted M1917 barrel. I was hesitant to try at first, worried about the possibility of high pressure building up behind the oversize copper jacketed bullet. In the end I decided to give it a try after reading about how strong people consider the M1917 action to be (and seeing that the rifle used in the Box-o-Truth article didn't blow up). I made up 20 rounds using neck-sized brass, 180gr Sierra .311 spitzers (303 British marked on the box) and 43gr IMR4895. The result was much better than I expect. At 50yds from the bench with the open sights of the military rifle (not a sporter) I placed 4 shots touching each other with one flier just outside of the group. Below is a picture of the target. Now I can bring my original piece of WWI history to the range and shoot it with confidence at 50yds and ring the gong at 100. Good enough for me.

M1917 target wtih .311 spitzer.jpg