P1913/M1917 Bayonet

[danbayonet]

Hi All: I am writing a book on the P1913/M1917 bayonet. I am about 70% completed. There are several questions that have developed I would like to explore with others knowledgeable about this item. The subjects include unique marks, production numbers, etc. Please let me know if you are interested in discussing this. Regards, Dan

[Jeff L]

Welcome! This seemed like a better spot for your post.

[DocCasualty]

I would like to explore with others knowledgeable about this item.

First off, I'm not that guy. I own one M1917 bayonet. It was made by Remington and is one of those where the British proofing marks are X'ed off and US marks were added. I guess those are lower on the collector's scale but think it's a pretty cool piece of history. If I can help you at all I would be happy to, though guess you're looking for much more than I could contribute and honestly, I'm not much of a blade guy. Otherwise I'd be happy to learn whatever evolves from the thread.

[danbayonet]

Hi Doc: Thanks for reply. It solves the riddle "if a tree falls in the forest, does it ..." :-) --- Yours is a piece of interest as it fits into the seam between supplying the British needs with the P14 and ramping production for our own M1917. Using up nonshipped UK proofed bayonets by overstamping was both needed and clever. There were two styles of overstamping: use of lines at a 45o angle and what I call stippling. Except from my developing book: "The stippling method of obliteration was by far the scarcer of the two methods. All but one of the samples so marked [stippled] were production dated September 1917, only one was marked June 1917. In all cases, the US Overstamp was horizontally oriented." Also there are varying ways the US was stamped with a wide range of scarcity. Thought you may find this of interest? Hopefully, I'll find a collector of the bayonets. Regards, Dan

[lonewoolf]

Dan,
I have 2 M1917 bayonets. One is the "mistake" Remington dated 1918 in error, the other is the 60's era Gen Cut

[DocCasualty]

Thought you may find this of interest? Hopefully, I'll find a collector of the bayonets. Regards, Dan

Yes, thanks for the interesting tidbit. Mine is overstamped with the 45 deg lines. I'd have to look at it for dates but doesn't sound necessary for your research.

Good luck!

[John Sukey]

Hate to tell you this, but that book has already been written.
British and Commonwealth bayomets
Skennerton and Richardson

North America
I.D.S.A. books
P.O. Box 185
Hamilton, OHio
45012
www.skennerton.com

[danbayonet]

Hi John Sukey: I have Skennerton, and several dozen others. They are terrific resources, each contributing the community. My book will cover both the P1913 and M1917, as well as the P1917(1965) "VietNam" model. Also, there is discussion of the development of the rifles and shotguns, information derived from a personally-developed five year EXCEL file of more than 2,300 subject bayonets for comparison of marks, extracts from the original production drawings of the 1917(1965) model, frequency of current bayonet availability, many photos of troops from 1915 to the Iraq War with the bayonets, and related materials, etc., etc.. Skennerton is terrific, ... I hope to add another dimension focused only on the two bayonets and related issues. Hopefully, you may have some added information I can include? Regards, Dan

[danbayonet]

Hi Lonewoolf: Thanks for the feedback. The "mistake" 1918's are reportedly about 3% of production. You likely are aware that someone at the Remington plant changed the 1917 to 1918 reflecting the change in date/year (as with M1905's), rather than the Model number of 1917. It was subsequently corrected. A brief excerpt from my book (to be):

Note: There have been no Winchester bayonets seen that carry the 1918 date.

Of the seventy 1918 bayonets viewed [out of the roughly 2,100 in my EXCEL], only three also had Canadian ownership marks. It is believed that these bayonets would have been passed on to the Canadians during Lend Lease rather than during World War I.

I refer to the GENCUT as the 1917(1965). The official designation is Model 1917, but the items are quite different. I have the production drawings for the piece and have several of them in my book. The drawings with the most recent changes are dated 1965. I would love to find out the total number made and the ratio between GENCUT and the Canadian Arsenal. The CA's are much scarcer, but that may only reflect location/availability rather than production. I have enjoyed that the US, in their wisdom, dumped hundreds of thousands rifles and bayonets around the world, including 31,000 to France to be cut down for the Foreign Legion knives and 15,000 to Mexico, just to have to turn around and make more for the VietNam trench (shot) guns.
Regards, Dan

[Misfit-45]

Hi,
I don't know if this will help. Here's a few pictures of my M1917 collection. Two of them are the 1913/17 pattern. I've always called the "stippled" mark out a waffle stamp.
Marv