Van Orden Winchester 70 Sniper

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Frankly, I can't tell if those are Model 70's or not, much less the time frame. I do know about the oddball scopes that were acquired, and I have seen some of them, but I have never heard anything about any of the Unertl sniper rifles being built at Albany (I was stationed there in 1970). That doesn't mean it didn't happen. As I said, I am no expert in the area of Vietnam sniper rifles, although I have friends who are. I think Senich and his works were a lasting great endeavor (as is Martin Peglar's books), I don't know anything about Miller, I neither know nor am I much impressed by the Chandlers (compared to Senich/Peglar), but Jim Land is a personal friend of mine of whom I think very highly. You (and the original post) have aroused my curiousity about the whole issue, and maybe I will learn something from the exchange.

Jim

[Bsully]

C. E. Lauer (sp) was the gent who built them, the Model 70s at Albany. As far as he was concerned he built them all. At the time Albany was the East coast "PWS" using today's terminology, since you were stationed there in 70 you should know that, yes? Were you in the RTE shop or on the rifle team when stationed at Albany in 70? Don't disagree on the Chandlers and their writing but if you dig deep enough and read it all there is plenty of useful information. The pictures are from a dubious source, The National Archives, USMC Historical Records, listed specifically as Winchester Model 70 sniping rifles with 3x9 scopes date 66-67. Again, have a few more and I guess it is easier to tell what they are when you have them in hand or study a little closer. Odd ball scopes fits right in with the beginning of the program and your quote from Maj Land's book. You might just ask Maj. Land about the early rifles in original sporter configuration and the variable power scopes since you are that close, beats reading about it in a book. See what he has to say. Miller was the gunsmith that built the rifles on Okinawa, no one special.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Bsully,

Actually, Maj Land has told me about the Model 70's, and showed me some of the original rifles and equipment. I should have asked more questions. My real interest, as you can probably tell, is the Marine 03 sniper rifles from WWI equipped with Winchester A5's. Just think of all the variables surrounding Vietnam sniper rifles, and multiply that by a thousand, and you have the A5 sniper rifles.

Albany was, and is, the equivalent of the old Philadelphia Depot. When I was there, my primary duty was rebuilding Amtracs. I did a lot of safety wiring of the bolts on the view ports. I also had to "clear" the wrecked Amtrac before the civilians worked on them. I found a lot of ordnance and a few weapons and a human foot still in part of a boot. The inside of the Amtracs always smelled funny, if you know what I mean. It was prior to my tour in RVN, and I had a distinct fear of riding in or on an Amtrac by the time I arrived in country. My tour was spent around the Que Son Mountains area north and north west of Hill 55, I got to tour Happy Valley, the river area, one trip into the A Shau, and other tourist attractions:-). I was very impressed with the beauty of the place, but it had a bite. I only saw one Marine with a bolt action scoped rifle (Rem 700 with Redfield Accu Range), and when I asked if I could look at it, I didn't particularly like his reaction. I was very near Firebase Baldy at the time, traveling with some Korean Marines that had a habit of making me nervous with their insane tactics. There was only one of them that could speak English, and his continual safety was my primary concern. All in all, I kinda enjoyed my tour in country, and myself and a Corporal Pryor got to do a lot of traveling. We used to hitch hike rides from firebase to firebase on any CH46 that came through, suppossedly investigating short fires. We roamed the southern part of I Corps for two months before our command caught up with us. By then we looked pretty ragged and my left hand was in a cast of sorts, but we kept shaved and got haircuts every chance we got, and bathed in the rain. Saw a lot of country (sometimes we didn't know exactly where we were) and a lot of action and got to drink a green beer occassionally. Couldn't ask for much more than that.

How about you? By the way, if Miller built those rifles, he is indeed someone special, same for Lauer. I know some of those guys we read about now, and when I read about what they did in the day, I am astounded. I realize that you cannot identify a hero when you see him by anything visible. Each of us probably knows someone, who unknown to us, has done something remarkable on the field of battle. You just never know unless you ask in the right way.

Jim

[jmoore]

Marine A5 Sniper, I believe Bsully will be incommunidaco for a while. No dramas, just gone.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

No problem. I hope he is OK.

Jim

[da gimp]

Friend belonged to the Happy Valley Rod & Gun Club, have enjoyed both his & your narratives.

da gimp

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Thanks, gimp.
To be honest, I was on a picnic compared to the experiences of some of the people I know. I just thought I was tough, they really were. I heard a good "shakes" story today. That is when you get scared so badly, you shake uncontrolably after the event is over (been there and done that). Usually occurs after being surprised and coming close to death as a result. It took me a lot of years to realize it was a pretty common experience among Marines in combat, and kinda funny in a way amongst those who have had that experience. Someone should collect all the "shakes" stories and publish them.

Jim
*********************
Bsully,
After speaking to Maj. Jim Land, I cannot disagree with anything you said. It may be more interesting than you indicated. I need to bone up on my Vietnam stuff, as I know little about an era in which I played an active part. I am a better man for your attempt to educate a hard headed old Marine. Thanks.

Jim

[da gimp]

Ya got class Jimmy, it takes a man...............


da gimp

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Thank you, gimp.

Jim

[Bsully]

Jim,
Glad you were able to confirm with Maj. Land. The subject is actually quite interesting and even includes some iron sighted standard configuration 70s making confirmed 1000 yd kills. I have no service to my credit. I grew up an AF Brat, attended a small school in Lexington, VA, some ROTC and an allocated slot but ended up with no commitment due to spending every summer in summer school, know about being hard headed. Thanks for the concern but just vacation time, worst thing is I now need a vacation to recoup from vacation. Please note the "no one special" was intended as sarcasm, now that all of this is irrelevant.
Sully