+P Loads for Older or Obsolescent Cartridges

[Art]

I read an article about what this fellow refers to as +P loads for the .250 Savage. There are disclaimers, the loads are only suitable for modern bolt action rifles and are most versatile with 1 in 10" barrels.

The fellow who wrote the article was at the range when he saw an old boy shooting a custom Mauser 98 action rifle in .250 Savage and his 100 gr bullets were topping 3,000 fps. His load data was at the very top of the manual he was using. My own pet load out of my Remington 700 Classic is 34 gr. of IMR 4064 powder behind a Hornaday 117 gr interlock boat tail spitzer which produces about 2,750 fps. This is right at the top of the loads on an old Speer manual and 1/2 gr. over the max in my current Hornaday manual. No signs of overpressure, its a very accurate load and I've killed several deer with it.

The Remington 700 is a very strong rifle and obviously I'd never try anything like this this in an old Savage 99.

Has anyone tried to boost a round like .30-30 Winchester out of a bolt gun like a Remington 788 or Ruger No. 1 for example??? Just curious. I know Hornaday has different loads for the .45-70 depending on action type ranging from very mild to very stout indeed.

Again, I'd never recommend max loads or a bit over on these old cartridges in anything but a modern, very strong rifle like a bolt action or single shot. My .30-06 loads, for example, are very mild M1 compatible rounds, respecting the age of my mil-surp rifles.

[Allen]

I assume this is a question just out of curiosity. Accuracy would be affected and the brass can only stand so much too. My 2 cents would be: at our age why experiment? If a stronger load is needed just go to a stronger cartridge/gun.

[Art]

I assume this is a question just out of curiosity. Accuracy would be affected and the brass can only stand so much too. My 2 cents would be: at our age why experiment? If a stronger load is needed just go to a stronger cartridge/gun.

It is absolutely a question out of curiosity.

I was in my mid 30s when I got the gun and worked up the load, and I've always liked the odd stuff. Even then the ammunition choice was a 100 gr. bullet at 2,800 fps. from Remington or Winchester and those velocities were optimistic. Since it was purely a hunting rifle, deer and stuff it got shot very little. As far as accuracy goes, the load I mentioned has never shot more than 1 moa at 200 yards (I shot it at the actual range it was zeroed for) when I checked it before deer season every year and that was the max The smallest group was just a skosh over 1" and most were 1.5" to 1.75." Those were all 3 shot verification of zero groups but over 20 years they give a pretty darn good illustration of what the rifle/load combination is capable of. The 117 gr bullets were made with the .257 Roberts or .25/06 and 1 in 10" rifled barrels in mind.(most old .250 Savage rifles have 1 in 14" barrels and don't stabilize bullets over 100 gr. well), so it would be very much on the mild side for the rifle(s) it was primarily made for. Now only Remington and Hornaday make ammo for the old .250 if you can find it. I haven't shot any game with the rifle in over 10 years and there is a good chance I won't again.

When I bought the rifle they were going begging. I watched the price drop for several months on those 700 Classics before I put my money down ($265.00 as I recall.) The salesman told me that sometimes a company hits the jackpot with a particular combination. He said those .250 Classic rifles built on a Remington short action with what started out as .25-06 barrels chambered in the old .250 Savage was one of the most accurate factory guns Remington ever produced. Now when it comes to velocity, the old boy told me that a decent number of folks had the guns rechambered to .250 Ackley improved. He advised against it saying "your velocity will go up and so will your group size." I have seen several reports in print and have a letter from an old boy at American Hand Loader testifying to the accuracy of this particular rifle. Of course I wasn't really aware of that when I bought it.

Today I would probably take your advice. A .243 will do everything the 0ld .250 Savage will and there are a lot more factory load options, and frankly the best option for the kind of hunting I did, or could have done would probably have been a .308 Winchester or similar. With both of those ammo is always available.

As I said in the OP, the biggest candidate for boosting power is the old .45-70 with progressively more powerful loads for more powerful cartridges in more modern and stronger rifles. I had a friend who had a 45-70 load for a modern Marlin 1895 and he was driving his handloaded 350 gr. bullets at 2,100 fps and was well within the manual's safe zone.

[Allen]

Back when I worked one of my co-workers overheard me speaking of reloading. He asked if I could "hot load" some 9mm for him to the strength of a 40 cal. I said "whoaaaa" it doesn't work like that.

I keep my little home defense revolvers loaded with 38 special +P loads but they are rated to be able to withstand it.

[JimF]

. . . . .I had a friend who had a 45-70 load for a modern Marlin 1895 and he was driving his handloaded 350 gr. bullets at 2,100 fps and was well within the manual's safe zone.

You just reminded me of this . . . . .
Once knew a guy that bought one of these ?new? Marlin M95?s in 45/70 . . . .
He made up some ?blue pill? loads that were so hot, that the receiver had driven itself about 1/8? to the rear, INTO the butt stock!

Really . . .the stock sort of ?oozed? around the rear of the receiver!!

When he very proudly showed me his rifle, I asked . . . .
?Bill . . . .did you shoot this from your shoulder, or braced against a tree??

It was a great testament to the strength of the Marlin!