4x4 truck hunting again

[S.A. Boggs]

That was my thinking as well
Sam

[Art]

The Following is based on our experience only

We bought a 2007 Forester band new. The other vehicles we looked at were the Toyota Rav 4, Honda CR-V, and Jeep Liberty (no longer in production.) Because of my outdoor activities AWD or 4WD were a must. I got tired of worrying whether I'd get myself into something I'd not be able to get out of in a 2wd station wagon.

One disclaimer, no AWD Crossover SUV will have the off road capability of a 4WD full size pick up truck.

Long story short, the Forester won the competition. It was no more expensive than any of the others and AWD which was at least a $1,000.00 add on with everybody else, was/is standard. It had comparable fuel economy, more ground clearance than any of them except the now defunct Liberty (ground clearance.) It did not quite have the angle of attack or off road capability of a vehicle like a 4WD 4 Runner but cost a heck of a lot less.

We fell in love with the thing. Slick road qualities were exemplary - it was almost impossible to make the vehicle slip or "fish tail" when acellerating on a wet road and stopping distance was a lot shorter than 2wd vehicles, especially on a slick road. Due to the flat 4 engine it had a very low center of gravity which made it much handier than the competition, in fact the near sport car manuverablily saved our bacon more than once. Fuel economy was comparable to the 2 wd Rav 4 and Cr-V.

The full wheel drive in line system which Subaru calls Symetrical All Wheel Drive is not subject to "torque walking" which plagues AWD systems with transverse mounted engines. Out of pocket maintenance costs on the 2007 which we turned over a year ago were, replace battery twice: replace alternator once; replace all four wheel bearings; two front wheel and one rear wheel brake jobs; replace struts once; replace A/C seals and refill coolant; Four sets of tires - and the most maddening one - replace fuel filler tube which should have been a recall item due to defective valve design. All of those except the last come under expected maintenance. We got rid of the car at 12 years and 130,000 miles. The relatively low mileage was due to my wife needing a full time high mileage work car about 6 years into the 2007 Subaru's life. She got a Honda Civic which ws the high mileage king of non "electro" compacts, at that point the Subaru was used mostly for outdoor activities, some longer trips and hauling bulky loads like building supplies and such. She retired last may so we're a one car family again.

We bought a new 2019 last year. It does have a CVR transmission. We've only had it a year but so far we are ok with it. Compared to the 2007 model we had the interior is cavernous. Gas mileage with the 2007 was (by actual measurement) 20-23 mpg in town, 23-26 mpg combined, and 26-29 on the highway. The new one comes in at 23-26 mpg in town, 26-28 combined and 31-35 on the highway.

On the road it is very well mannered. Off road - I haven't done the Pikes Peak Hill Climb or anything like that but I've put it through some quite rough ranch roads and pretty rough and/or wet off roads spots with no problem. It would be even more competent with more aggressive tires. Ground clearance is the top of its class at 8.7" If you get into a situation where serious off roading is required the manufacturer recommend turning off the traction control which is counter intuitive but I've heard from other sources takes up off road capability a half step.

Our new one is a base model with the following dealer added "perks:" cast aluminum wheels, luggage rack rails, cargo area floor protector, passenger compartment Subaru rubber fitted floor mats. Drive out price after some negotiations was right at $26,000.00. Subaru is the "Barbie Doll" off vehicles when it comes to dealer available add ons, they actually have a catalogue full of that stuff. This which can be dangerous where my wife is concerned, and in some ways me too. We added aerodynamic luggage rack cross bars ($200.00,) cargo net ($50.00,) rear seat protectors ($75.00,) and, this one was on me, steel engine under guard ($225.00) which had a label on it saying "Subaru Russian Federation" which I guess will tell you where that accessory is used most of the time.

We didn't do much checking out of the Jeep Liberty because the dealership were a bunch of "butts" but I still see a lot of them on the road and the come with a 4WD option and have a very good angle of attack so if you can find a good one of those that's been babied and you want more serious off road capability you might check them out. I guarantee it will probably cost less than a similarly babied Forrester.

Sorry if it sounds like a commercial but you can, of course check all of this out yourselves.

The thing I always worry about with vintage technology, meaning any vehicle over 20 years old, is reliability. No matter how well maintained it is it is more likely to let you down. If it lets you down it may be at the wrong time, maybe the "wrong, wrong" time.

Again, just my devalued $.05 worth and, as indicated above, your mileage may vary.

[High Plaines Doug r]

I just read an article by a guy who interviewed the oil patch workers between Fairbanks and Prudhoe Bay about their preferences in mostly company supplied trucks (mainly diesel). The votes were mostly for Ford and GMC/Chevy. They thought Chrysler had cheap, plastic interiors that would crack in the arctic cold and that the vehicle in general, other than the engine, was unreliable. The GMC/Chevy got the most votes for comfort but the front end alignment was fragile, needing constant adjustment. The interior heater was the BEST and where the crews would camp out during down time. The Ford was the most rugged and was chosen when a job needed to get done but the interior heater was wimpy and everyone whined about it.
Probably not helpful for you Texans or Floridians but a baseline.

[lyman]

I just read an article by a guy who interviewed the oil patch workers between Fairbanks and Prudhoe Bay about their preferences in mostly company supplied trucks (mainly diesel). The votes were mostly for Ford and GMC/Chevy. They thought Chrysler had cheap, plastic interiors that would crack in the arctic cold and that the vehicle in general, other than the engine, was unreliable. The GMC/Chevy got the most votes for comfort but the front end alignment was fragile, needing constant adjustment. The interior heater was the BEST and where the crews would camp out during down time. The Ford was the most rugged and was chosen when a job needed to get done but the interior heater was wimpy and everyone whined about it.
Probably not helpful for you Texans or Floridians but a baseline.

I have heard and read similar about the Dodge,

most seem to believe the Cummins engine is good for about double the life of the actual truck

[S.A. Boggs]

I just read an article by a guy who interviewed the oil patch workers between Fairbanks and Prudhoe Bay about their preferences in mostly company supplied trucks (mainly diesel). The votes were mostly for Ford and GMC/Chevy. They thought Chrysler had cheap, plastic interiors that would crack in the arctic cold and that the vehicle in general, other than the engine, was unreliable. The GMC/Chevy got the most votes for comfort but the front end alignment was fragile, needing constant adjustment. The interior heater was the BEST and where the crews would camp out during down time. The Ford was the most rugged and was chosen when a job needed to get done but the interior heater was wimpy and everyone whined about it.
Probably not helpful for you Texans or Floridians but a baseline.

One of the best things I like about my F-150 is the heater as it gets warm.
Sam

[Carbine64]

I kept my Dodge after picking up the F150 just to haul stuff that a new truck should not. Just about everything in the front end has been replaced.The motor and trans has been great.Still getting recalls 16 years after buying it new,sometimes a recall on a recall.It has a double recall on the cruse and the horn and still waiting for the recall for the front end .The rust started right after the warranty ran out,it only had 30000 miles,I was using the old Ford Ranger for my daily driver at this point I wish I still had that truck.

[S.A. Boggs]

Our daughter finally made her decision on a vehicle yesterday. She decided against a new vehicle due to the amount of monthly payment and what she wanted in a vehicle. Sam decided on an all terrain Ford SUV [the name I do not remember] with all the bells and whistles. It is a 2014/150/000 miles on it and it looks nice. She is going this A.M. to have our mechanic/family friend look over it to find out any problems. If Mike gives the nod the car will be in the driveway this P.M. My Grand Cherokee will be held in reserve for going to Church on Sunday's. The weird part was the buying experience due to the CV19 emergency. Normally the dealership is busy, quiet as a tomb. Only the general manager and lead salesman was there, all other's laid off. Book value is $13,500 and she got it for $8,300.00! Our banker was astounded and gave Sam the loan with nothing down save for tax, title and insurance. Sam is attached as a rider to my insurance policy of 45 years standing. A really weird buying experience, literally giving the vehicle away. My only suggestion to her is to do an oil change and upgrade the tires.
Sam

[Darreld Walton]

Much to still be said for keeping a vehicle with points and carburetor. Yeah, yeah, I get it...my EFI pickups start without a hitch, even when it's -20 and a 30 kt wind overnight. If they quit, though, or start acting weird, I look at that loom of wires and the 'little black box', and all I see is dollars floating away.

[S.A. Boggs]

Went in this past Saturday to pick up the "new" vehicle and did not. Asked the salesman for the repair invoice regarding the repair to the rear axle and he asked ""what invoice?" I said that he and I had a verbal agreement to have the dealership fix the rear end and I would buy the vehicle. He said that he didn't remember our conversation on this point but would go ask his boss. Came back a few minutes later and said no, the dealer would not do this. I thanked him for his time and my wife and and daughter got up to leave. He said he had the paperwork all done up and was I going to still buy the car. I said no as our daughter was over budget and I was going to pick up the tab for new tires, tags, and sales tax. I was not going to pay for the repair before I could pit the vehicle on the road as this would make my out of pocket cost another $2,000 over her budget. He looked stunned as his sales commission just got up and walked out. My wife asked why I passed it up as it appeared to be a good deal. I said it was a good deal but not good enough and I would continue to look for another vehicle for our daughter. Samantha was O.K. as she and I had agreed on our course of action as she is a "Daddy's" girl.
Sam

[shadycon]

This happens all the time. I would look for a vehicle with less than 100k. Why buy a vehicle that has to be repaired before you can use it? Keep looking there a good vehicles out there at decent prices, be patient. Check book prices, today's dealer mark up is up to 50% of value.
Salesmen are like politicians, Promise anything to make a sale. Bottom line is you pay for it in the end.
Good luck and stay safe............