Argentine Mausers

[leecork]

I recently acquired two very nice Argentine mausers. One is a full length rifle and the other one appears to be the calvary carbine model. Both are Modelo 1909s made in Berlin and stamped 7.65x53. My problem is that that new Norma brass seems to fit the carbine model well, but will not accept this same brass on the full length mauser (not allowing the bolt to close). I have never encountered this kind of problem with new brass. I could use my press to push back the shoulder, but want to avoid this, if possible. Any ideas or input will be appreciated. I will post this same inquiry on the reloading forum, as they may know something of the problem. Thanks

[Sunray]

You full length resize the brass? New brass is not ready to load right out of the box. It requires checking for length, trimming as required(rarely required), chamfering the case mouths and FL resizing. If you plan on using the same brass in both rifles, a totally doable thing, you must FL resize anyway.

[fguffey]

New brass is not ready to load right out of the box.

I have never found new brass that would not chamber/allow the bolt to close. The Argentine 7.65MM53 cases are the same as the 7.65MM Belgium Mauser case. I would suggest you learn how to measure the length of the cases from the shoulder/datum to the case head and learn to measure the diameter of the case at the neck, case head and at the case body/shoulder juncture.

F. Guffey

[lyman]

did you clean the chamber ?
seems an obvious question, but just wanted to make sure

if both are marked the same (caliber) and clean, yet one will not chamber the round, (check bolt face as well, ) then I would cast the chamber of the tight one and measure to be safe,

[JimF]

Check my post to your question on the Mauser forum.

[fguffey]

Check my post to your question on the Mauser forum.

A case that has case head separation and is stuck in the chamber will reduce the diameter of the chamber to the point if is impossible to chamber another case. Leecork says he wants to avoid sizing the new cases; that means he does not have a lot of case protruding from the chamber.

F. Guffey

[JimF]

True enough, Guffy . . . .

However, there may still be a broken case further forward . . . . say from the shoulder, forward to the case mouth.

Back when I shot Krags in competition, I had such a separation . . . . a 10-inch “rat-tail” file I carried in my range box, came to the rescue!

Out popped the front half of a case!

[leecork]

Found the problem, but not the solution yet. Since I have two Argentine mausers, I decided to transfer the bolt from the rifle that chambers to the mauser that wouldn't chamber the brass. Surprise, the rifle now correctly chambers the brass nicely. So I concluded that the problem is with the original bolt. This bolt is not seating the brass correctly, the brass head is not being picked up and seated in the bolt head recess. As far as finding the solution, nothing appears broken or out of place. I am still examining the bolt to try to see what is wrong. I may have to take the rifle to my favorite gunsmith. Thanks for the help I received from all you all.

[Parashooter]

Many Mauser extractors are not made with enough chamfer to allow closing the bolt on a cartridge placed directly in the chamber - they are designed to be fed only from the magazine. Some have been made (or altered) to allow direct single-loading. Examine your two extractors and you may see a difference. You might also try swapping the extractors to see if the "problem" follows.

[Sunray]

"...transfer the bolt..." You may have created another problem that makes the rifle unsafe to shoot with any ammo. Bolts are not interchangeable. They must be fitted for headspace with proper headspace gauges($70 for the set from Pacific Tool and Gauge. They're CIP spec, not SAAMI too. 6 to 8 weeks for delivery though. Made to order.).
"...brass head is not being picked up..." That's not the bolt. It's usually the mag follower spring. If you take it to a smithy buy or rent the assorted gauges yourself. If he buys 'em, you will pay for and not get to keep 'em. Oh and a Wilson Case Length gauge is not a headspace gauge.