Argentine Mausers

[leecork]

I recently acquired two very nice Argentine mausers. One is a full length rifle and the other one appears to be the calvary carbine model. Both are Modelo 1909s made in Berlin and stamped 7.65x53. My problem is that that new Norma brass seems to fit the carbine model well, but will not accept this same brass on the full length mauser (not allowing the bolt to close). I have never encountered this kind of problem with new brass. I could use my press to push back the shoulder, but want to avoid this, if possible. Any ideas or input will be appreciated. I will post this same inquiry on the reloading forum, as they may know something of the problem. Thanks

[JimF]

You are absolutely sure, there is no old, broken shell in the chamber, right?

Could be, a complete head separation occurred so long ago, that what you may THINK is the chamber wall (when peering into the breach) is actually the interior wall of an old shell. —Jim

[lyman]

You are absolutely sure, there is no old, broken shell in the chamber, right?

Could be, a complete head separation occurred so long ago, that what you may THINK is the chamber wall (when peering into the breach) is actually the interior wall of an old shell. —Jim

good call!

[fguffey]

I could use my press to push back the shoulder, but want to avoid this, if possible. Any ideas or input will be appreciated. I will post this same inquiry on the reloading forum, as they may know something of the problem

Bolt will not close? And then someone should ask; "BY how much?" Because a case that is missing the case head reduces the diameter of the chamber to the point the new, full length sized case will not began to chamber.

Again; I believe you need to spend time studying learning to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head and the diameter of the case. I also recommend reloaders learn to size a case and take advantage of the threads on the die and press. It should not come as a shock to most reloaders but the maximum ability to reduce case length from the shoulder to the case head is reached when the bottom of the die contacts the top of the shell holder. After that there is the addition 1/4 turn of the die after contact to overcome the case's ability to resist sizing.

And then there is shop skills: The shell holder has a deck height of .125"; my favorite shell holder is the RCBS shell holder because it has a loose fit with the case head. There are times I need to size cases for short chambers; when sizing cases for short chambers I raise the case head up and off the deck of the shell holder with shims from a feeler gage set. I can reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head .010" with a .010" thick feeler gage.

And I believe it is good practice for a reloader to size cases by shimming the case head up and off of the deck of the shell holder, and then the reloaders needs to determine how to measure the length of the case from the shoulder/datum to the case head.

From the beginning reloaders were trained to grind the bottom of the die or top of the shell holder to fix all sizing problems; not me! And when it came to purchasing 'small base dies' or using the feeler gage to increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing I used the feeler gage.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I could use my press to push back the shoulder, but want to avoid this, if possible. Any ideas or input will be appreciated. I will post this same inquiry on the reloading forum, as they may know something of the problem

I could use my press to push back the shoulder, but want to avoid this, if possible.

If the cases are new, factory, over the counter never fired cases they are full length sized to minimum length meaning you can not shorten the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

I understand reloaders are big on bumping and moving the shoulder back, I find it impossible to move the shoulder back because I have spent a small amount of time trying to determine what happens to the case when sized; the one thing I determined is..... it impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full length case body support.

F. Guffey

[leecork]

Found the problem, but not the solution yet. Since I have two Argentine mausers, I decided to transfer the bolt from the rifle that chambers to the mauser that wouldn't chamber the brass. Surprise, the rifle now correctly chambers the brass nicely. So I concluded that the problem is with the original bolt. This bolt is not seating the brass correctly, the brass head is not being picked up and seated in the bolt head recess. As far as finding the solution, nothing appears broken or out of place. I am still examining the bolt to try to see what is wrong. I may have to take the rifle to my favorite gunsmith. Thanks for the help I received from all you all.

[jon_norstog]

Something is truly weird. Do the numbers match? Those mausers were shipped in individual cans, complete with matching numbered accessories. Every one of them was test-fired before leaving the factory - in fact you can sometimes find a cherry original complete with its test-fire target. The targets I've seen are 3 shots , probably at 100 M. No way could a rifle get shipped if it wouldn't chamber a round. My 2 cents.

jn

[fguffey]

Something is truly weird. Do the numbers match? Those mausers were shipped in individual cans,

In the old days they removed the bolt and shipped in a separate box; they found the bolt handle took up too much room. There are some interesting stories about gun dealers and collectors getting together to match the bolts to the rifles. To find someone that was in New York at the time I believe you would have to go to Deming, NM.

F. Guffey

[Calfed]

Make sure you are feeding the shells through the magazine.

[Calfed]

Mauser actions are made to pick up the shell under the extractor as it is fed from the magazine. This is called controlled round feeding. Some mauser extractors have enough give to snap over the rim of the shell if it isn't fed through the magazine, others can't. What happens is that the extractor hits the case head preventing the bolt from closing.