Early 50-70 Conversion

[thorin6]

Went to a gun store yesterday, and saw a 2-band conversion. The breach block was dated 1866, the lock plate was 1864. It looked about as long as a standard 45-70, and had two barrel bands. Where there may have been a barrel band there was a hole for the barrel band spring, but no notch cutout. The stock looked sanded, no cartouches. No serial numbers but a couple of eagle heads on the metal. Two-click tumbler, spring on the firing pin, no catch on the cleaning rod, which looked correct for a 50-70. Everything appeared to be in the white (including the cleaning rod). The bore was toast, heavy pitting and just a hint of rifling. I know that this could be a Bannerman and I have Dick's book on the .58 and .50 rifles of the Springfield Armory but my knowledge of the 50-70s is pretty much limited to the Model 1868 (which I have one). The store was asking $599 which, given the condition of the barrel I thought was high, but on the off chance I go by there again, what should I be looking for to determine if this is, indeed, a legitimate Springfield rifle?

[jaie5070]

Sounds like a cleaned up wall hanger. Good for parts.

[jon_norstog]

That kind of money, add a cuple hundred and you can probably get a pretty decent TD. That paRTICULAR GUN i WOULDN'T TOUCH IT FOR ANYTHING OVER $250.

JN

[thorin6]

If he had been asking $299 I would have been interested in it just for the unusualness, and I know the parts would have been worth it.
As it stands, in lieu of finding out it's a rare piece, I'll let it be.

[Dick Hosmer]

It is probably a post-service alteration by an outside company. SA did make a 2-band version of the 1866, but they are pretty scarce. They do NOT have a band-spring filler, and the cleaning rod is set back from the muzzle just like the full-size arm.

[Kragrifle]

I have two of these two band 1866 muskets. One has the filled band spring and one does not. This could be because one stock was an 1863 (no spring) and one was an 1864 (with band spring). No?

[Dick Hosmer]

Yes, that is the reason. When SA made up the 1,071 genuine "short rifle" specimens, repairing arms which had muzzle issues, they did not cut down the existing stocks but used new ones. Bannerman, and others, seem to have modified whatever was on the rifles being shortened. Another key is that the genuine specimens will be exactly 52" OA, and the geometry of the upper band, tip placement, barrel exposure will be spot-on. The aftermarket stuff is often - even if only slightly so - out of proportion.