No cartouche??

[Carlsr]

Picked up this 1876 production M1873. Seems to be all original except for the lower barrel band which seems to have a large U instead of a small U. It has a pristine bore which seems to have been shot very little. There is a very crisp proof mark but no inspectors cartouche that can be seen. I broke it all down and the stock is original with all the correct millings and holes. My question should anyone know is why there would be a great proof mark but no cartouche? Thanks for any help.IMG_1386.jpgIMG_1391.jpgIMG_1392.jpgIMG_1389.jpgIMG_1393.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

Nice specimen. Really cannot do any more than suggest that it is the ever-popular "field replacement". It is possible - but highly unlikely - that the missing stampwas just an oversight. The early stock wrists failed in service, and some rifles did have new stocks installed.

[Carlsr]

Thank You Dick Hosmer. I thought it may be a field replacement also. I may be mistaken but I was under the impression field replacement stocks only had an inspectors initial below the trigger guard?

[Dick Hosmer]

The REAL problem - and I mean nothing personal by this - is that sometimes we (all) tend, at times, to overlook the fact that these rifles have survived for close to 150 years, passing through untold numbers of hands. The percentage of absolutely un-touched pieces has to be quite small. On the other end of the scale, some items are SO bad that they are painful to look at. The vast majority fall somewhere in the middle. When a nice, correct, specimen like yours comes along, we have to look at it with an eye to "is the mystery likely or unlikely?" If the stock is a replacement, at least it is of the period, and so "could" be just fine. Every rifle has to be evaluated on its' own specific set of components, and the degree of wear/finish thereon. The more specimens you handle, and the more you read, the better off you will be. This has rambled terribly. but I hope the thought comes through - there are few absolutes, and common sense will steer one past a lot of problems.

[Carlsr]

I understand what you are saying Dick Hosmer. These are old rifles and have been through many hands in most cases. I have seen many with incorrect parts as with my search for an 1868 and 1870. I was at a gun show last weekend and a guy had an 1868 with all correct metal parts but with an incorrect stock. Stoped at a gun shop on the way home and once again an 1868 with and incorrect stock and only had the serial # on the barrel. One day I will find one in decent shape and correct??? As for my original post I believe I read in the 45/70 Springfield that replacement stocks only had the inspectors mark. With that being said I am extremely happy that I found this one and the price paid I could not argue with.

[blackhawknj]

Isn't it like the M-1 Garand ? Many saw hard use, then were subject to "Clean and Repair" ?

[Mark Daiute]

Upon being accepted into government service it got the acceptance cartouche, it go the circled P once it was proofed. If re-built while in government service it would not need the cartouche as it was already accepted but it would be re-proofed thus getting the circled P but no cartouche. Do we not come across trapdoors and Krags bearing the circled P but not the cartouche, frequently? This scenario would explain it.

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this is a rifle I want!

[Dick Hosmer]

The circled P was NOT a proofmark in the sense of destructive testing! It signified the successful firing (for function, not accuracy since the rear sight had not yet been installed) of 5 rounds through an assembled arm. That is why (in a sort of 'gotcha' twisting of words) there is NO such thing as a "unfired" U.S. military arm of that period. I have NO idea what is done now.

Actual "proof" testing was done much earlier, after barrels had been rough-bored ONLY (no rifling, chambering, threading, etc.) and did not involve the use of cartridges, rather loose powder and lead slugs. A number of barrels were clamped in a semicircular fixture, arranged like the spokes of a wheel, and fired simultaneously with a powder train.