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  1. #11
    leftyo Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by clintonhater View Post
    Complaining about their ammo is trivializing what's potentially another immense loss to the American shooting community. To me, it still seems "impossible" that Winchester is no more--that vast industrial complex in New Haven, thousands of workers, all gone.
    we are not going to lose remingturd, will be just like every time colt has filed. sadly unless they s can the mgmt that got them into this position, it wont be the last time.

  2. #12

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    ...Look at Mopar..... it was Chrysler, then Daimler-Chrysler, then Cerebus investments, then FIAT...
    Cerebus still owns Remington/Marlin and can't find a buyer. They merged Bushmaster with DPMS and already tossed H&R into the trash for the final time. First they moved H&R into the Ilion Remington plant. Then they decided to crash it. The H&R tooling has already been sold off in bits or destroyed.
    Aren't Cerebus and Freedom Group the same except on paper?
    2016 Chicago Cubs. MLB Champions!


    **Never quite as old as the other old farts**

  3. #13
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    The biggest problem, IMHO, is that way too many people overbought firearms in the Obama panic. People are simply not buying many firearms right now and in fact are unloading some of the guns they bought over the last nine years. What does a fellow really do with a half dozen black rifles and a bunch of high capacity auto pistols he bought because he thought they were going away forever?? More folks than you might think are in that category. A symptom of the problem is the number of privately owned gun stores that have gone out of business in the year where I live. Two I bought from on occasion have shut their doors in the past three months, and the management of another has told me they're in deep trouble. Even "Collector's Firearms" which never, ever put anything on sale have recently advertised blanket discounts to keep up cash flow. people aren't buying guns right now and if they do they expect to get a real bargain, and can because of the depressed firearms market.

    Its the same reason a lot of companies (Indian Motor Cycle being one) went out of business right after WWII, they expanded rapidly due to war industry demand and couldn't survive the dramatic sales drop after that "bubble" market went away.
    Last edited by Art; 02-12-2018 at 09:48.

  4. #14
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    "..."impossible" that Winchester is no more..." Winchester has been 'no more' and just an FN licenced brand name since 1989. Caused by eons of marketing based on the name as much as anything. Didn't help when Olin was convicted of violating the arms embargo in 1978.
    None of these companies have come out with anything new and innovative for years either. Just chambering an M700 is something different on the orders of the MBA's in Marketing doesn't count.
    Spelling and grammar count!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    None of these companies have come out with anything new and innovative for years either. Just chambering an M700 is something different on the orders of the MBA's in Marketing doesn't count.
    There is a conundrum. Shooters will routinely say they want "walnut and steel" and then balk at paying for it. My favorite example is the Winchester Super X Model 1 shotgun of the late 1970s. Winchester did a lot of market research and the overwhelming response was for a high quality walnut and steel autoloading shotgun. Winchester gave them what they wanted and from all reports the Super X Model 1 was a fine weapon. The problem was that it was both expensive and heavy, therefore didn't sell. The whole thing was an incredible boondoggle. The Remington 700 and the various models of the 870 are still major cash cows for Remington, even with their diminished attention to detail, but not Model 70s or Model 12s. Winchester was never able to bridge the gap that well. Winchester, when their traditional guns became too expensive to be profitable made guns that were failures because people who wouldn't pay the price for an old model 70 refused to buy the new Model 70 they could afford because it wasn't an old Model 70. Interestingly the great innovator of modern firearms design, Sturm Ruger, made a lot of money simply modernizing and using innovative production techniques on old school guns like the single action revolver, the single shot rifle, and the Mauser bolt action repeater. One of the guns they made their reputation on, the original .44 Magnum Carbine was dropped because.....it was too expensive to make due to the use of forged, machined parts in its construction. My 9mm polymer frame 9mm high capacity semi automatic pistol is superior to any Model 1911 I've ever owned when it comes to functionality and not much difference in accuracy. It is the ultimate reduction of the firearm to a tool, and as such will never engender a lot of affection. It is, however, my preference in a carry semi automatic. Such is the price of progress.
    Last edited by Art; 02-12-2018 at 11:56.

  6. #16
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    I have to agree with much that has been said with this cravat. With the new production methods one wonder's why some of the "old" models couldn't be brought back. The Detective Special or the Colt .380 instead of a miniaturized 1911. I have a pre-warning Ruger [1974] that after all these years the finish is still superior to a new model. Colt shot themselves [again] in the foot with a marketing decision. Couple of years ago Colt recreated the M16A1 in semi @ a retail of $2500, Brownell's is doing the same at half the cost. Which one do you think will sell the most? Locally Wal-Mart brought back long guns and the local gun shop couldn't/wouldn't compete and is now closed. Gun companies were bought up by $$$people who saw a product to sell, not a heritage to cherish. The guy who inherited by marriage the local gun shop was the same, a lawyer who saw a cash cow and nothing more. People like Hodgson and Brownells understand the heritage not just the $$$.
    Sam

  7. #17

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    People like Hodgson and Brownells understand the heritage not just the $$$.
    Keep in mind it's much easier to appreciate the heritage when the $$$ is paying for everything else you enjoy in life. It's not easy to love a business which is in the red quarter after quarter.
    2016 Chicago Cubs. MLB Champions!


    **Never quite as old as the other old farts**

  8. #18
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    @ the start of the Obama gun scare and general gun run I saw a man commit an act of stupidity. I was in the gun shop checking out powder when the green horn came in. He wanted to buy an "AR-15 Assault Rifle!" and ammo. When advised the store was sold out he asked if they had any other "Assault Rifles!" in stock. All the store had left was two of the Century 5.56 copies of the Israeli rifle which were know to have functioning problems. The guy held the rifle, was shown the features, without hesitation the guy bought both of the "Assault Rifles!" and a case of ammo. Didn't try to deal just whipped out his drivers license and CC to the tune of about $3,000. Immediately P.T. Barnum came to my mind! I talked to one of he other salesmen, a friend of mine. He said that for the last week this had been a daily occurrence and the store was dang near cleaned out of anything with large capacity. I seriously doubt that firearms will be seen at too many yard sales now.
    Sam

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A. Boggs View Post
    I have to agree with much that has been said with this cravat. With the new production methods one wonder's why some of the "old" models couldn't be brought back. The Detective Special..............
    Sam
    Colt recently introduced a double action snubby revolver they call the "Cobra." It actually is pretty much a stainless steel D.S. and has some nice features like interchangeable front sights that I like a lot. It is also competitively priced with Smith & Wesson comparable revolvers. The only drawback to me is that it is not a .357 Magnum which means that the steel small frame 'Smith's are more versatile but since most folks don't shoot magnums in snubbys that shouldn't be a huge deal. Now we'll just have to see if people actually buy it.
    Last edited by Art; 02-13-2018 at 05:29.

  10. #20
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    Colt recently introduced a double action snubby revolver they call the "Cobra.
    I carried a Colt Cobra as my off duty weapon in the sixties it was a .38 Special. I did't like the way you had to pull back on the cylinder lock to unlock the cylinder. S&W was much more to my taste to push forward to unlock cylinder. Kind of strange Colt would wait this long to produce a Colt Cobra when the originals were made in the
    Circa 1960-1978 like it is something new. I realize it is much more powerful weapon. Just 2 cents..............

    john
    “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)

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