Rifle Value?

[Marty T.]

I do not know much about the British rifles so I'm going to tell you more than I know. I have stumbled across a rifle that is described as a Long Branch (Savage) No. 4 MK 1* 1943 in .303.
What is the value of this rifle approx.? I know that pics are nice but that is all I have is one picture and it's not very clear. The asking price is $315 and I just need to know if that is a good price before I bother with trying to see the rifle. SN is 57L2193. Would also like to know manufacture date. Thanks.

[Sunray]

Long Branch rifles were not made by Savage. 'Long Branch' was the name of the Canadian Arsenals plant in Long Branch, Ont. Currently Mississauga, Ont. a suburb of Toronto. However, once the contract between the Brits and Savage was finished(June of 1944), all remaining rifles, parts and machinery got shipped to Long Branch and issued to the CF. Had one on my MIU long ago.
As to value, it depends on condition if it's still in full military configuration and if the headspace is good. (Thousands of 'em were assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. Not even ensuring the headspace is good there by making the rifle safe to shoot. This does not mean that particular rifle is unsafe. Just means you have to check the head space.) Anyway, $315 isn't too bad depending on all that. Where you are matters too. They start at around $500US on Gunbroker.
1943 is the manufacture date. There is no data base of S/N's by month. There are some guesses though. Best guess is 57L numbered rifles were made in December of 1943. The knowledgeable guy who did the guessing posted his guesses here.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53153

[p246]

Still in Military configuration with good bore and passes headspace is a good price at 315.00 for a 43. I paid 350.00 for a nice 1944 LB last year. 1941s bring the most as only about 7500 were made.

[Marty T.]

Do know that it is in military config. Just don't know anything else right now. Made an offer and will see where it goes. Thanks for info, and if you know of anything else that could be of help, I'm open.

[p246]

Wood fit is the next thing I look for. Should be up pressure on barrel at stock end (4lbs). Some is good none could mean problems or bubba got to it. If you can take Forewood off (pull straight down at wrist, don’t pull off at angle from front) see if the draws are beat up. Stock fit can be fixed but directly impacts value. On the LE make sure the bolt serial number matches the receiver. Will probably have the 300/600 flip sight, but if it has a Mark 1 micrometer sight that’s worth a little more to me. The other marks (sights) add no value to me personally. Good luck.

[Sunray]

"...anything else..." There are 9 different bayonets that fit a No. 4 Rifle. Not all are the typical 'spike'. Some are easier to find than others.
What this guy calls a "No. 4 MK 1 Spike Bayonet" is not. It's known as a 'cruciform'. Lotta decent pictures of the assorted bayonets though. About the middle of the page. http://enfieldking.tripod.com/enfieldking/id14.html

[p246]

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Here is picture of Standard Spike vs Cruciform. Cruciform are faked. See stamping for my Singer. Longbrach made some but that’s one that has eluded me.

[leftyo]

if its in decent shape, you wont get hurt at $315

[Merc]

My 1944 Savage Enfield No. 4 Mk 1* turned out to be a good shooter through blind luck. I didn't know until after I bought it that the headspace was still good, the muzzle wasn't worn, and the throat erosion wasn't bad enough to have an effect on accuracy. The bore took some work with a brass brush and bore solvent but ultimately cleaned up well. It would be nice to know how worn the rifle is in advance of the purchase.

I see a few No. 4s at gun shows now and then with asking prices around $300. I saw a nice looking No. 4 at a gun show recently offered for $300 that someone had put some work in refinishing the stock and metal parts. It looked minty but the barrel crown was so badly worn that it completely swallowed my muzzle gauge and I had a hard time retrieving it.

These rifles were battle weapons and were purposely made with very spacious chambers in order to function when fouled with mud, snow, etc. and that should be remembered if you're a reloader. Brass cases do get stretched through repeated firings and it's not uncommon to have case-head separation. This obviously happened enough even with new ammo that the British provided a broken case extractor tool that can be found occasionally on eBay.

Muzzle and headspace gauges are inexpensive and can be bought on-line. I'm not aware of a throat erosion gauge that would work on a .303 cal. rifle. There is another sorta crude way of measuring the loss of rifling in the throat area. See the M1917 page and look under Christmas Eve M1917.

According to the stampings (51 R) on the metal wrist band, my No. 4 likely went through a rebuild in Canada by Longbranch in 1951. Several non-functioning parts were replaced (butt plate, barrel bands, etc.) with parts from other models. By 1951, Savage was no longer rebuilding the No. 4. The rifle's serial number is stamped on the metal wrist band, bolt handle and mag and they all survived the rebuild process intact. This is also something that could be checked in advance of the purchase.

[p246]

There is a you tube video on how to take a fired case, drill and tap for the Hornady OAL tool. Once I got that done I use a 174 grain SMK to see where the chamber is versus how much jump there will be. Easier than chamber casting and I already had the Hornady tool. The rifle I shoot the most,which shoots very well is jumpimg 8 thousands.