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  1. #1
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    Default Holland and Holland commercial 303

    Guy gave me a coffe can of 303 as he knew I collected headstamps and shot 303. Most were Dominican Arsenal MarkVII stuff. I was surprised though when I found six rounds of the Holland and Holland headstamp made by Kynock. Not real common, I was trying to remember time frame when this stuff was made, anyone remember off the top of their head.IMG_4246.jpg

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    IMG_4247.jpgIMG_4248.jpg

  2. #2
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    That's a Kynoch head stamp, not an H&H. I think the bullet has lost its innards too. Kynoch still makes a .303 with that bullet, but it's a 215 grain lead cored SP.
    http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/ca...ollection.html
    The lads over on the International Ammunition Assoc. think it's roughly 1900 to the 1930's for H&H stamped ammo though. One post from 2012 with the same cartridge. Apparently H&H stamped .303 is rare Stateside.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    That's a Kynoch head stamp, not an H&H. I think the bullet has lost its innards too. Kynoch still makes a .303 with that bullet, but it's a 215 grain lead cored SP.
    http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/ca...ollection.html
    The lads over on the International Ammunition Assoc. think it's roughly 1900 to the 1930's for H&H stamped ammo though. One post from 2012 with the same cartridge. Apparently H&H stamped .303 is rare Stateside.
    Thanks Sunray I knew it was made by Kynock for H and H. I've found a few posts on dates of manufacture but it's all over the place. I have one other headstamp in this from years of looking at gun shows, so it's definitely not easy to find. All six of these have the same bullets so I suppose they could all have lost an inner core but they all look like dum dum hollow points. The other case I have was fired so I can't compare that bullet. A couple of these had cracked necks and I was able to pull the bullet. It has one driving band at the base.

  4. #4
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    Here is some more pics of the pulled bullet and other 5.
    IMG_4249.jpgIMG_4250.jpg

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    IMG_4251.jpgIMG_4252.jpgIMG_4252.jpgIMG_4253.jpg
    Last edited by p246; 11-15-2017 at 08:13.

  5. #5
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    Here are some pics of Mark IV Royal Labs. The bullet profile is very similiar but the hollow portion on the tip is not as wide. I wonder if the H and H stuff was based off the Mark IV bullet.IMG_4254.jpgIMG_4255.jpg

  6. #6
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    "...look like dum dum hollow points..." Hi. Any HP is considered to be a 'Dum Dum'. Dum Dum was an arsenal in India.
    If it's a 215, it very likely just was a Mark IV bullet. How are they primed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    "...look like dum dum hollow points..." Hi. Any HP is considered to be a 'Dum Dum'. Dum Dum was an arsenal in India.
    If it's a 215, it very likely just was a Mark IV bullet. How are they primed?
    Yes the India Dum Dum aresenal name still causes me a smile. The Holland and Holland is not primer crimped and does not say IV on it, Just Holland and Holland over Kynoch (smaller font). The Royal Labs markIV is not primer crimped. The primers on both look exactly the same. The primers set deeper in the pocket then later 303 by just a bit. I assume primer crimp in the Mark IV was not yet necessary because the machine guns were not in very heavy use yet and were new to the scene circa 1899 to 1900 (if memory serves this is when Mark IV came about).

    I wonder if the H and H was made up of left over stock of Mark IV bullets after the British moved on after the Hague treaty.

  8. #8
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    Hi. I meant are they Boxer or Berdan? Mk III to Mk V ammo all used a 215 grain HP. All of that stuff was accepted between 1898 and 1899 and used Cordite instead of smokeless powder. Anyway, if it's loaded with powder vs the Cordite sticks(looks like spaghetti), that'll help. I suspect H&H used a 215 HP because that's what they always used. Probably not in the ammo used by guys like “Karamojo” Bell. Mind you, he used regular Mk VI ball ammo.
    Maxim MG's were issued in 1889 in Singapore. The Singapore Volunteer Corps were the very first Brit unit to get 'em. Sultan's had money even then. There was an air cooled Maxim(looked a lot like a .30 Browning) in 1895 too.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    Hi. I meant are they Boxer or Berdan? Mk III to Mk V ammo all used a 215 grain HP. All of that stuff was accepted between 1898 and 1899 and used Cordite instead of smokeless powder. Anyway, if it's loaded with powder vs the Cordite sticks(looks like spaghetti), that'll help. I suspect H&H used a 215 HP because that's what they always used. Probably not in the ammo used by guys like “Karamojo” Bell. Mind you, he used regular Mk VI ball ammo.
    Maxim MG's were issued in 1889 in Singapore. The Singapore Volunteer Corps were the very first Brit unit to get 'em. Sultan's had money even then. There was an air cooled Maxim(looked a lot like a .30 Browning) in 1895 too.
    Very interesting stuff. I have not pulled the wad out yet. I will tomorrow and see if we have cordite or powder.

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