The Silence on this forum is Deafening RE: Ken Burns' VIETNAM

[clintonhater]

The M-14 would have been a great rifle in the desert or in Europe, but I think he is right about it being too heavy and clumsy for Vietnam.

Which was why it was replaced. But speaking of heavy and clumsy, there's at least one early photo of an ARVN soldier, weighing not much over 100lbs it appeared, shouldering a M1 rifle; an M1 or M2 carbine would seem a better choice for jungle fighting before M16s became available. Another photo shows what I think was supposed to be a VC aiming an '03 Springfield, and I don't mean 03A3! One problem with most historical documentaries is that they mix up photos taken in different decades because the photo editors are too ignorant to know better; what they could at least do is insert an approximate date into the corner of every photo or film clip.

[Clark Howard]

The ground forces in all four corps captured many, many, USGI weapons all through the war. The communist nations recycled every small arm they recovered, no matter its source. It seems that the VC and the NVA were amply supplied by the South Vietnam government and the ARVN. Our government has a history of arming countries that later prove to be our enemies. I once reported orange 50 cal tracers chasing my aircraft instead of commie green. The intel officer said the enemy had access to our weapons and ammo. Regards, Clark

[dave]

Taking nothing away from the vets who were there, it was a war we had no good reason to get into!

[Former Cav]

I have not watched it yet, but I WILL watch it as I am recording it on the DVR machine.

I can tell you that my tour of duty was no FUN. BUt I can also tell you that AFTER I got out of the Army, that is when the "Total SCR*WING" began.
Below is a response to a guy who wanted his son or other kid to receive a response to his question.

Names have been changed to protect the "innocent and the guilty as well"
I deleted the veterans groups that this was sent on as it was a "private sign in type group" where you had to have someone vouch for you BEFORE you could join.

HERe it is. Start at the bottom and read up. My response is immediately below this line.



________________________________________
From:vietnam@xxx.com On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:28 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Question About WINTER SOLDIER Hearings...

Mac,
I wasn’t with John Kerry (thankfully) so I can’t testify as to what he did do or did not do. I can tell you that where I was and the unit I was with did not commit any atrocities that I know of. Our daily schedule went something like this… Arise at 4 or 5 AM…if you arose in peace you had a chance to grab some c-rats, it you arose by being attacked ….forget about those c-rats….go like hell all day long….hump them boonies for days on end and never see another human being (thankfully) or if you did see another they were usually shooting at you. Again if it were a relatively non-combat day….eat some c-rats on top of the tank while doing a search and destroy. React to another unit who needs help…etc etc. Set up a night defensive position at dusk….now…even though we were an armored unit….if we were in war zones c or d or any other “bad” area, we’d actually dig in what we called “fighting positions” and to the grunt it was known as the good old fox hole. If we were lucky enough to not have to dig in, you’d have maybe 5 or 10 minutes before dark to write a note home. I used to use the box top of the c-rat box as a post card as a lot of times I did not have the luxury of stationery as it was on my last tank or apc which got blown away. So now it is dark, so you get to go out on an ambush patrol or a listening post. If you didn’t do that and stayed with the perimeter, then you got to pull guard duty for one or two hours. Whatever time was left over you got to sleep. That been said….now let me ask your son…..when did I have time to commit all these rapes and killings? My 2nd question to him is “where” were all these women that I was supposedly raping? I really can’t recall seeing too many women out in the jungle. We were pounding the bush most of the time. Sometimes we’d run a road at night to keep it from being mined…….again….where were all these women? Where were all the children that we supposedly killed?
Did John Kerry’s activities after he got out effect me? Definitely! I was literally harassed out of my first drafting job as my boss would ask me every morning “how did it feel to kill all those innocent women and children?” Back in 1971/2 they did not have “hostile work environment” rules! After about 4-1/2 months of this crap and nobody would even have a cup of coffee with me…the boss came up to me with his usual speel.. I told him “it felt absolutely great and you are next on my list…let’s go out into the parking lot and I will fix things right now!” Well he walked away with a big red face. A week later we had a factory shut down for inventory and I went looking for a job. The following Monday when I was to return to work….I did NOT, I called and said I’m not coming back. Did this affect me and my wife and my 2 year old son? Absolutely….they liked to eat like anyone else. I was lucky I still had my part time job from when I was going to school to be a draftsmen immediately before I got this crummy job.
After this….I was very selective as to who I told I was a vietnam veteran or not. It wasn’t until 1989 (20 years after I got out) that I “crawled out of the closet” and admitted to being a veteran.
I was treated like xxxx for 35 years at the Minneapolis VA as well.
In my humble opinion, Kerry and others like him did a lot of damage to a lot of innocent folks who already had enough bull chit to deal with in their lives. If anyone asked me about my fused knee on my left leg (it does not bend…that is from an RPG hit on my 3rd and last tank) I told them I got it in a car accident. I lost my left eye with a bb gun incident when I was a kid (that was from the first RPG that hit the tank) So now I was a liar as well ! After you tell one lie….eventually you have to tell another lie to cover up the first lie. It sucks to be a liar!
I was very mistreated and discriminated against a good part of my lifetime but I never bitched about it like all these minorities do. All these minorities and fringe groups have all these special privileges. In Minneapolis, they have a gay rights parade.. Tell me….when is the last time they had a combat veterans parade? How about NEVER!
I have a friend who is a Minnesota state trooper as well as being a Vietnam vet. He told me to get rid of my purple heart license plates (this was 1990 or there abouts). I asked why. He said I am a target as police will figure I am a drunk that just came out of a legion or VFW club. I got rid of the plates and sure as hell, I quit getting pulled over. What a good deal this is….right? So there are still people out there that hate veterans!
You can tell your son for me….I have 3 purple hearts and 2 of them are from schrapnel wounds from RPGs the other is from a homemade VC grenade. I never shot, killed, raped, or mistreated any women or child. I did shoot and kill whoever was shooting at me or who ever had just killed some of my best friends.
I have a “memoir” of sorts that I wrote a long time ago and I do not wish to make it public. If you want your son to see it, email me back channel and give me your email address and I will email it to you. I can tell you that it sucks because it deals with being in a hospital after getting shot up as well. It is not really a “fun read” nor was it a “fun life”.
Sincerely
Cav (the other Bob)



________________________________________
From:
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:26 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Question About WINTER SOLDIER Hearings...

Mac,

Don't know of a specific site but I know they are out there and some of the members will, I am sure. Have you suggested that your son talk one to one with a few people that were actually in Viet Nam? Face to face talking is a powerful way to learn.

M

her@xxxxx.net> wrote:
OUr son has decided that Kerry and the others at the Winter Soldiers
Hearing spoke nothing but the truth.
I stated that several of those who were there and testified turned out
not to have been in the Service; and those who were, many were
stationed elsewhere than Vietnam; and several who claimed a direct
knowledge/participation in alleged atrocities were stationed NOT where
they claimed.
I mentioned that Senator Mark Hatfield requested an investigation and
the result of that was, as above.
Unfortunately, our son is under the sway of "The Drunken Philosopher"
who preaches a wonderful game but does not practice what he asks
others to do... this character claims Vietnam was rediculous, that it
was criminal... etc., etc.
You get the picture.

would any of you have some site where I might obtain specific

[John Sukey]

Ask the Swift boat veterans what they think of Kerry!

[Griff Murphey]

My junior year in high school '65-'66 the army took away our Army JROTC M-1 Carbines and as far as I know sent them to Vietnam.

[Vern Humphrey]

The first three episodes have been mostly factual. The military has been portrayed as foolish boobs, forgetting, (or avoiding) the fact that we were under orders. The murder of Col. Dewey in 1945 was attributed to the Viet Minh, when it has been established that the Brits killed him on purpose. The idea that the war was unwinnable is reinforced every few minutes. The fact that Johnson fractured our effort and piece-mealed our forces, preventing the defeat of the North Vietnamese is politely skirted. I expect the whole series to turn out as cover for the perfidy and treason of the dems in power at the time, and Teddy. Regards, Clark

You nailed it.

[Former Cav]

Well, the dems and you might include Nixon LOST that "skirmish" in Vietnam. Remember : there was WORLD WAR II, the Korean "conflict" and the Vietnam "experience". <-- SAID with great sarcasm!

W BUSH did not impress me with his LOSING either. LETS face it, NONE of these politicians have been fighting to WIN!! Hopefully Mr. Trump will change that!

I don't care if you are playing football, checkers, chess or a WAR, if you are playing DEFENSE....the best you can hope for is a DRAW!
What ever happened to WINNING!!

I'd love to see some of these politicians KIDS on the FRONT LINE in a COMBAT UNIT! See if there is a change in attitudes !!

[leftyo]

finally seen an episode last night. while there is some good stuff, there is definately a one sided lean to it.

[Vern Humphrey]

Which was why it was replaced. But speaking of heavy and clumsy, there's at least one early photo of an ARVN soldier, weighing not much over 100lbs it appeared, shouldering a M1 rifle; an M1 or M2 carbine would seem a better choice for jungle fighting before M16s became available. Another photo shows what I think was supposed to be a VC aiming an '03 Springfield, and I don't mean 03A3! One problem with most historical documentaries is that they mix up photos taken in different decades because the photo editors are too ignorant to know better; what they could at least do is insert an approximate date into the corner of every photo or film clip.

My first tour as an Adviser, the ARVN used the M1 rifle. We Advisers were issued the M2 carbine -- what a miserable piece of @@#&%! Mime got wrapped around a tree, and I "borrowed" am M1 from the ARVN and carried that the rest of my tour.

The M1 was heavy, it's true. But my belief is that an M1 and enough ammunition to accomplish a mission weighs less than an M16 and enough ammo to accomplish the same mission. For one thing, in combat, people tend to hide behind things. The M1 will shoot THROUGH stuff -- logs, dirt berms and so on.