It does make a difference group

[JB White]

Beam scale here too. Lyman 1000. I don't recall but it's probably somewhere around 30 years old. Haven't had to change a battery

[snakehunter]

I use a balance beam scale, I have no intention of up grading to a electronic scale. A RCBS 5-10 to be exact, bought it used a few years ago.

I feel the same way. I wouldn't use an electronic sale if I got it free. I also use an RCBS which I got 25-30 years ago.

[bruce]

Have a couple of RCBS 505 beam scales. Have a RCBS Rangemaster. Both types are excellent. The Rangemaster is faster/easier to use. Have used the beam type since 1980. Have used the Rangemaster since 2014. It is a matter of what one prefers to use. THe scales are equal in performance/function. For my purposes, the Rangemaster is easier and quicker to use. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[RED]

I don't know, but I don't think that .2 grs are going to consistently make that much of a difference... .2 grains is .00454% of 44. Back when Dillon started testing his progressive presses, he was able to demonstrate again and again, that at the bench-rest matches a thrown charge was equally as accurate as a weighed charge. My RCBS measurer is probably plus or minus, .25-.30 grains. I throw 10 charges and weigh 1 at random and that works for me. But, a .25 MOA difference in accuracy is totally meaningless to me. A whitetail at 200 yards is dead, but a whitetail at 400 yards is safe from me because I would not take the shot.

My longest ever kill shot on a deer was a measured 433 yards and that was 25 years ago. Back then I would take risks and almost every deer was a head shot. I figured in the head he's dead, no tracking needed. That was until I spent a entire day trying to find a deer that was missing his lower jaw. I shot him just after dawn and found him at dusk. He was in a pond trying to drink when I put him out of misery. Since then every deer I have taken went less than 50 yards. I have killed deer with a 7mm Mauser, a 8mm Mauser, a .257 Bob, a 25-06, .308 but mostly a 30-06.

Just my $ 0.02.

[snakehunter]

Sorry Red. I've got to disagree. .2gr +/- of powder makes a significant difference in accuracy in my 223. Whereas it makes a lot less difference in my '06. In the 223, 25,4 gr of 748 with a 50gr Nosler and a Rem 7 and 1/2 BR primer gives me groups averaging .20 moa If I go up or down by .2 gr, the groups open up considerably. Up .2 gives me .35 moa and down .2 gives me .48. In my '06, my accuracy load is 55gr 760 behind a Sierra 165gr Game King with a CCI 200 primer. That load gives an average group of 1.16 moa. At 54.8gr the average group is 1.23and at 55.2 it's 1.32
..;

[bruce]

Re: Head shots. Agree. Have been hunting steady since 1980. Have killed my own deer and on some occasions finished off deer that other folks shot poorly. There are folks that can pull head shots consistently. Guess I'm just not that sure. Whatever the angle, I try to put the shot through the heart/lungs. So far ... have not ever had a deer ever stand up after such a hit. I never shot anything at 400 yds., but have shot a good bit of stuff out to 180/200 yds. The .30-06 w/ good 150 gr. bullets has been instant lights out for everything. Up until last year, every deer was shot with a military surplus rifle using iron sights ... and that includes those that were close and those that were in out a couple of football fields away. Finally had to go to a scope ... so got myself a Remington 03-A4 replica. Dropped a nice doe jumping over a fence at 130 yds.... dead when she hit the ground. Good rifle! Sincerely. bruce.

[noslack327]

I use both, A electronic scale and a triple beam scale, the electronic is faster.

[jon_norstog]

I use an RCBS scale and trickler. I tend to load pretty hot, looking for that combination of accuracy and knock-down power, mainly in my 30-40. I do the same with the 7 mag, but it seems less fussy than the Krag. Both guns group just fine at the distances I use them. Neither of them will win a bench rest competition, but maybe that's me. The BP gun is really consistent .. it's my baCKUP.

jn

[BlitzKrieg]

Gents,

I bought the RCBS Chargemaster, it can vary .1 grain time after time, IE..43.5 set on the machine...43.5, 43.4, 43.6 can be charges that fall out of that setting. Does this matter ? Well heck yes and maybe not so much. I say this as I have retired this machine because for group accuracy at any distance 300 yds and out to 1000 yds, it matters but if you are shooting a NRA bullseye with huge scoring rings, maybe the loads with such variance matters nothing for "score" at 600 yds and below...it will matter if you are shooting F Class at 800 to 1000 for "score". It matters not if you are shooting a E Silhouette man size target at 600 yds and below...it matters tons if you are shooting that E Silhouette at 800 to 1000 yds.

What kind of accuracy are you seeking...tiny groups (extreme accuracy), scores or "hits on a man" and how far is your distance. Its all good whatever your answer.

That all said, I use a US made Ohaus mfg 1010 balance beam and I have a magnifying glass rigged up so I can really see that pointer on the scale...and I trickle till that charge is "exact". Real easy and fast..drop charge from measure, put on scale and trickle if needed to charge desired.

I use 4064, Varget and RL 15 mostly and its problematic on how it drops (charge weight) from my measure so I won't use anything out of the measure for any load I make...I want the charge to be exact. This pays off for me. However ...take CFE 223 ball powder (which is crap beyond 600 yds), it drops out of measure 99% of the time right on the charge weight and I'd not worry about loading cases right out of the measure for use 600 yds and shorter range.

What is the mission ? That drives the ammo you need to make and the more exact your powder charge the more consistent your loads will perform. Variables enter into accuracy results so I try to eliminate any variable.

My father told me: if you are going to reload, you make the best ammo you can. He is correct and I follow that advice but I am not saying anyone is wrong for making ammo "adequate" to the task / mission he needs the ammo to perform to.

Parting shot: I got tons of loads that shot 3 rds touching at 100 yds (loads many would find just fine for their level / distance of shooting) and fall apart at 300 yds. My acid test is : Does the load hold accuracy at 300 yds and if it does, its a good chance it will do my mission on out to 1000 yds.

[BlitzKrieg]

I use both, A electronic scale and a triple beam scale, the electronic is faster.

I did a test loading 100 rounds with electronic scale and 100 rds with charges on my balance beam. It was 15 minutes time difference for me. The electronic scale can "wander" and I don't trust it and you really got to put in a ton of money to get a electronic scale that is sure fire reliable exact. Your RCBS/Hornady/Dillon electronic scales do vary and are less "exact" time after time than my balance beam.

Now...15 min may make a difference to you but for me...Cost me as much to make a imperfect round as a near perfect round so 15 min more time with the balance beam is fine with me.

As stated: I have the electronic scale and the RCBS ChargeMaster rig....they have their "warts" and they may be Good Enuff for 99% of reloaders. Since I own the machines and find them less wonderful, I own up that i chased technology, paid for it and found it less wonderful than old school balance beam scales.

If I think there is a rainbow to chase on better gear, I'll chase that rainbow but I don't find much gold ...as I look at the rain forest of reloading presses here, I don't find much difference: Dillon 650, Dillon 450, RCBS Rock Chucker (1969 era), Herters Super "O', Lee classic turret, Lee turret, RCBS A2 mega press circa 1964, Forster Co Ax (got two of them).

However on scales...my gold is balance beam scales. I see that difference so I use it.

Why does a guy own two Co Ax presses....I'm working that hard ...the answer escapes me.