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  1. Default Sniper Rifle Ammo American Rifleman June 2017

    Sniper Rifle Ammo
    There is an interesting article on new sniper rifle ammunition in the June 2017 issue of the American Rifleman magazine. This is a far different approach than that taken in WWI, WWII, and Korea. I do not know how many of you have tried match shooting with M2 Ball at 600 yards-I have and it was not pretty. I never tried it at 1000. When (just after WWII, when we could not get M2AP or some of the old M1 ammo, we shot what we could get.) We could occasionally get some good bullets for hand loading, but not often. Sometimes M1 bullets were available. LtCol Hicker, who wrote the article in 1949, outlined what he thought s sniping outfit should contain. The article appeared after his death and was a result of his rough notes. He was the DCM at the time and disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1948-never to be found. Here are some comments that I forwarded to the American Rifleman:
    Sniper Rifle
    I was quite interested to read your article Unsung Hero The Mk 248 Mod 1 in the June 2017 American Rifleman magazine. It reminded me of another article, Wanted: A Sniping Rifle by the late Lt Col. E.S. Hicker which appeared in the American Rifleman magazine for February 1949. He recommended the same set up that is now standard. At the time we were still struggling with the 03A4 and the M1C and the M1D - none of which were very suitable. He recommended that it be a bolt action rifle in 300 Magnum caliber with a good box magazine and sighted with accurate target telescopic sights. His choice was the 300 H&H as the 300 Winchester, the 30-338 Magnum and the 308 Norma Magnum were far into the future at the time. He also recommended the use of external target mounts (for telescopic sights with accurate and repeatable adjustments were not available at the time.) He further recommended acquisition of match grade ammunition using Western Super Match 180 grain boat tail bullets loaded to ~ 3000 fps.

    I was very surprised to hear that the Sierra 180 grain Matchking in 30 caliber gave such poor results with the navy team in 1987. In the 1960's I was a member of a rifle club in the Far Southwest Club which had 30 firing points up to an including 1000 yards. The 180 grain 30 caliber Matchking was the bullet of choice. I shot at least 10 shots at 1000 yards practically every weekend for about 10 years competed in many 1000 yard matches in the area including the New Mexico state range at El Capitan, NM. I have shot thousands of 180 SMK bullets from a 300 Winchester H&H Bull gun and Titus barreled 30-06 Model 70's , and pulled targets many times and never saw any indication that the 180 SMK ever had any stability problems. These were Full Patch bullets the preceded -hollow pointed SMK in use today. I also used some 200 grain SMK in my Winchester 300 H&H with no difficulty. All of my 30 caliber barrels have a 1:10 twist. I tried a 1:12 twist but found it to be not as satisfactory.

    FWIW

    Life Member NRA, Life Master High Power
    Last edited by Cosine26; 05-26-2017 at 08:41.

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    A while ago, Precision Shooting ran an article about the testing that Crane did on the 300 Win Mag. They tried bullets with the tips "spun" closed in an effort to improve the BC, but that resulted in instability at long range. I don't recall if the testing coincided with Sierra changing the design of the 180's from a long boat tail (better bc) to a short boat tail (better accuracy). I thought they settled on the 190 when they released A191.

    I have a friend that shot an M1 in the "old days". He got scored a visible miss at 600 with the M2 that they issued for a leg match. When he got to the pits, he found a paster for his visible miss. His round went in sideways. He switched over to an M14 thereafter so he could be issued M118 or M852.

    I have a pre-64 M70 Target rifle with a barrel marked Bliss Titus. I bought the rifle in Arizona. Being a relative young'un at the time, I figured he was a gunsmith from the previous generation.
    Last edited by Chris F; 08-27-2017 at 05:21.

  3. #3
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    That is interesting reading your post. This a topic that I know a little about but not a lot. I'm more a collector than a shooter, so I find this interesting.

    I have seen mentions in the Marine documens of pre WWII and post WWII where they bought model 70's in .300 H&H and .300 Winchester Mag. And they used them in the any rifle, any sight competition, 1000 yard matches. Usually they used a Lyman SuperTargetspot telescopic sight on them.

    I've also seen a lot of mentions in the Marine docs of trying to acquire M1 Rounds because they were more accurate than the later M2.

    I've also noticed back then that ammo testing for accuracy is one of the things they were constantly doing. I have seen a million ammo tests in Documents from the archives. A lot of is Greek to me, so I don't pay a lot of attention to them. But after reading your post I might pay more attention the next time I run across one.

    Thanks for the info!

  4. #4

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    The M72 bullets are interesting, as they were used fro long-range mg use, but certain lots were noted for tighter grouping. Also, some lots were used in the tinned case fiasco of soldered together .
    I have used the M2 for DCM leg matched, and in my 1983 purchased M1 Dates 43, using frame hold I was able to get some decent scores , when I held the "Stock hold nut" tight!

  5. #5

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    Besides my above post, I would like to apply some of the reading for getting good ammo for 400 yard hunting loads, with the 7mmMag Remington round as I have a post 64, first series M70 with the 162 gr SGK bullet.

    Thanks for feedback

  6. Default

    The M72 bullets are interesting, as they were used fro long-range mg use, but certain lots were noted for tighter grouping. Also, some lots were used in the tinned case fiasco of soldered together .
    I have used the M2 for DCM leg matched, and in my 1983 purchased M1 Dates 43, using frame hold I was able to get some decent scores , when I held the "Stock hold nut" tight!
    It was actually the M1 projectile that was used in machine guns. The bullets exceeded the safe maximum range of the machine gun ranges of the day and they went back to the drawing board to come up with the M2 round. Hatcher's Notebook has a nice account of this. The "tin can" ammo of the 1921 National Matches were actually a flat based design. The M1 projectile was resurrected (in close to original form) when M72 was fielded as a strictly match round.

    Funny tangent; I collect cartridges...particularly US Match Ammo. I have a friend who is a CIII dealer. It's not uncommon that I'll purchase and park collectible match ammo at his shop. When they've been there too long, he'll call me and tell me he's about to link and shoot my ammo in his machine guns. ...so it is possible that M72 has been shot in a machine gun...though that was not it's intended purpose.
    Last edited by Chris F; 08-28-2017 at 11:49.

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