A further "pointed" look at my 1895 Winchester-Lee

[Kragrifle]

With a SN that high that should be a civilian musket.

[Rick the Librarian]

According to Eugene M., most of the civilian Lees were interspersed in the 10,000-15,000 range. Those from 15,000 to 20,000 were the second contract of rifles to the Navy and Marines.

[jon_norstog]

Here's some comments etc. regarding the Lee Navy rifle and the fights it was prominently used in. From the Spanish-American War website:

http://www.spanamwar.com/lee.htm

A Marine's letter home after the landing at Guantanamo

http://www.spanamwar.com/wisconsinmarine.htm

Lt. Baptiste surrendered in part because he and his men thought the Marines had machine guns



http://www.spanamwar.com/leearticle.htm

Stephen Crane (Red Badge of Courage) was a war correspondent with the Marines. Here's his dispatch from the fight at Cuzco Wells

http://www.spanamwar.com/cranequickaccount.htm


jn

[Dan Shapiro]

Thanks for the links. Interesting!

[5MadFarmers]

Pitiful. Just pitiful.

"OSHKOSH BOY IN CUBA - EXCITING EPISTLE RECEIVED FROM OSHKOSH SOLDIER IN BATTLE"

The Shakey's was at least inexpensive. While there is a Golden Corral there it's not inexpensive. I blame the air show. I never stop to eat in Oshkosh.

In some cases the Cubans, who have never seen the rifle before, lost the blocks entirely and then threw the arms away, disgusted with them. It was noticible that the Cubans reported a much larger percentage of disabled pieces than the marines.

I'll be honest - that disqualifies the gun from military service as it stood. It had some very good points but a gun in military service shouldn't be a "but" gun.

"The M16 works fine but it does require proper cleaning to function."

That's a but. There should be no buts. It should work regardless.

The Navy Lee performed admirably in the hands of the Marines.

They found that many of the complaints were groundless, the men, who in the heat of action, having neglected to take the proper measures to work the arm.

Pull trigger, bang. The more that doesn't happen for any reason the more work which should be done to make that so.

Conversely most new weapons have teething problems that need to be worked out. That one didn't get the chance. Gas trap M1 anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

M16? "Enough is enough, put a piston in the stupid thing."

[Dan Shapiro]

5M - Amen! But then, MacNamara's "wiz-kids", being Democrats, knew EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. Just ask 'em!

First 4 months in Vietnam, carried an M-14. Worked every time. Sun, rain, mud. It worked. Then we were ordered to turn them in for M-16's. During familiarization was told 'this weapon is self-cleaning'. (No way, I'm thinking). Go out to the bunker line to fire off two magazines and get sight dope. First round jams. Not a happy camper.

[5MadFarmers]

During familiarization was told 'this weapon is self-cleaning'. (No way, I'm thinking).

Sad really.





Can't blame Colt. Was the army aware of that? "I got that at Rock Island Arsenal."

Did Stoner abandon that direct impingement?





"I'm of the opinion that the answer is yes."

Was the army aware he was no longer a believer?



I'm going with "yes."

===========

Lee and his straight pull was on the right track. Just needed a gas system. With a piston.

[Kragrifle]

Sorry. You are correct. Second contract is the higher range SNs.

[5MadFarmers]

Some things are purchased on "belief" and some not so much. Do you believe that the Navy marked all their rifles the same? Those on the USS Kearsarge received "USS Kearsarge" paint and thus all the rest did? Were they that consistent or was there inconsistency? Some believe in that rigid consistency. Some do not. In four days and 19 hours two rifles will be going in an auction at Rock Island Auctions. Lot 210. The first of the two is a Remington-Lee in the correct range for the Michigan buy. Doesn't appear to have the butt stock number most seem to have. Which means it'll go cheaper. Those that insist on that number being present won't be that interested. Only those that even notice it will be interested. Comes with a pedestrian trapdoor. That will be a good lot. A Remington-Lee in the Michigan range. Cheap. Whether that's interesting or not depends on the person. Myself? I have one. If I didn't I'd probably buy that one.

[rayg]

Speaking of the Win Lee slings, I was lucky and found an original sling some years ago that a gun shop was selling one line that they had taken off of a W-L they had taken in trade. lucky for me, they had not done enough research to determine the real going value of one however they did know enough it was scarce as they set a $600 price on it. The sling had the Winchester star proof on it but no patent marks yet. At the time two W-L slings had been sold by a dealer for about $2100-2200 each.
It gets better as not long after, I had posted a Japanese sling F/S on line and a fellow asked if I was willing to trade it for a sling he had. Turns out his sling was a later made W-L sling complete with the patent stamp on the buckle. Probably made for the Russian 95 lever rifle contact and not quite the quality as the earlier one. These slings fall through the cracks as they could be mistaken for Mauser or other non US slings. I've been holding on to it in case I found a decent 95 Win but time has passed me by and I am now in the process of disposing most of my collection. I know it will be of interest to some one with a 95 Win as I can't recall ever personally seeing one with an original sling on it as I suppose most were used up in Russia.
I'd suggest to take a good look at the photos of both so you know what they look like just in case you run across one. The first photo and the last two photos are of the earlier sling. One difference between the two is the early sling has a tapered end where as the later one does not and the stitching is of better quality. Ray

Win lee sling-6.JPGWinchester 95 sling-1.JPGWinchester 95 sling-3.JPGWin-Lee sling-2.JPGWin-Lee sling-3.JPG