Few questions on an 1899 carbine I picked up recently

[5MadFarmers]

I have two 1899 carbines with the 1902 cartouche. Both of these have seen use. Cartouches are real (I have seen the bad ones). Serial numbers not available right now but are in the 360K to 370K range. Supposedly 200 or so were dated 1902.

Springfield's production reports are tabulated on page 256 in the book. From their annual production reports. They list exactly 1 made in FY02-03.

Strange thing is I encountered that 1. How's that for needle in a haystack?

With that data point, is it possible that more than 1 received later cartouches? Certainly. If the, say, Navy wanted 200 of them and wanted them inspected SA would do so. So clearly within the realm of possible and within the realm of what's been observed from them.

The bulk of them were in the three blocks. Outside of those it's the typical odd dribs and drabs for reasons only they were clear on.

Is it possible that they'd put 1902 sights on small dribs and drabs? Well, they did make those sights for something right?

The missing piece is an unexpected personnel change. Two in fact. M-1899 carbines past the 1901 production are oddities. 1 new manufacture per their record. Anything else is a redo of an existing gun.

So why no carbines of note in 1902 or 1903? "The regulars were going to get the M-1902 (which became the M-1903)." The Militia? "Refused to maintain mounted troops in significant numbers due to the cost of maintaining horses." Infantry is cheap. Mounted not so much.

[Kragrifle]

Tom Pearce made the observation that unless you find a rifle/carbine in new/unused condition you cannot know for certain the "as originally produced" configuration . He was never able to find a 1902 dated carbine in that condition.

[5MadFarmers]

Tom Pearce made the observation that unless you find a rifle/carbine in new/unused condition you cannot know for certain the "as originally produced" configuration.

He's 100% on with that.

He was never able to find a 1902 dated carbine in that condition.

Post the 1901 batch we observe the overstrikes. Logic tells us, the serials also indicate it, that those were "make a carbine" guns. A rifle receiver overstruck to 1899. Why did they bother? I have no idea.

I observed one 1899 with a serial "out of range" from the rest which wasn't an overstrike. Very surprised to see it. Serial indicated that was likely the 02/03 gun. Is it possible for me to know for sure? Nope. Something as simple as a miss-set stamping machine could be the cause. People have had over a century to muck with the guns. Make them "be" what they want them to "be." So I'd say it's +50% likely that was the gun but it's impossible to get over 90% sure on that.

The every day run of the mill guns are every day run of the mill guns. It's the oddities that are the ones that require "slow speed ahead." Take everything you think you know and chuck it. Then slowly review it for what you see. Chico Marx and his: "who you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

[M1Riflenut]

Finally made it back to the shop that had the other Krag carbines. This shop has all guns locked in the racks, you can only see the bottom of them as they sit in the racks. Took a number (like the deli counter at the supermarket) and waited a good 30 minutes before my number came up. I got a close look at the "oddball" one and it is an 1899 carbine that has been heavily buffed and reblued, stock does appear to be a cut down rifle stock, 1902 unmarked rear sight and no handguard. The other one was also an 1899, no rear sight or handguard and heavily sanded stock. I think I got the best one the first time I was there. Pics this weekend.