Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 14 of 14
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    2,216

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merc View Post
    I know the feeling. Being able to check barrel condition is the reason I'll never buy a rifle online. I have to see it in person.

    The dealer I bought my early Winchester from also had several Eddystones for sale. I looked at all the barrels and the only barrel that had a good amount of rifling remaining was on the Winchester with a low serial number. It was missing two easily replaced external parts and had a replacement stock that's in nice shape. I wound up replacing all the E and R stamped parts except the E bolt and it turned out to be a great shooter.

    I made an offer that was substantially less than the asking price. We met half way. He was happy and so was I. The point is, once you find a rifle that you want, make an offer. The asking price is almost always higher than what the seller is willing to accept. All they can say is no. If the price is firm, they'll tell you. Then you'll need to decide if the rifle is worth the money.
    Why I go to great effort to photograph rifling when I put it on the net.

  2. #12

    Default

    I think some things should be made clear.

    Firing blanks does not wipe out the whole barrel, it eats up the Throat. It may look good but the threat can and likely is gone.

    You need a THROAT EROSION gauge to see that. Steve Mathews makes a very good one for a low dost that is very close calibration wise to a 1917 (not spot on, but if it falls into the barrel from the rear you know its toast)

    I have a boroscope and you can see it with that as well.

    Do not buy one if you are seuqemish, good barrels (button rifled ( look bad, nothing to do with their shooting.

    They are good to see if you got them clean. Using Boretech Eliminator I have cleaned up a JA and an original WWI barrel. Both look good now.

    Pictures do not mean anything, they can look good and the MW is bad, the TE is bad and you have a nice spiral.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,685

    Default

    RC20,

    I was referring to the powder and primer residue left behind by the blanks that can damage a barrel if corrosive and not cleaned. This wouldn't have mattered so much with modern blanks, but we could be talking about stuff from the 1920s that is still in the bore. The fouled bore on the otherwise pristine $1200 M1917 Eddystone I saw at a gun show led me to believe it was used for ceremonial purposes and never cleaned. I never did check the throat condition once I saw the badly fouled barrel bore. I was more curious about why the seller thought the rifle was worth so much money. By the way, I was at the gun show on 1/15/17 and the M1917 is still there after 3 years and the asking price is still $1200.

    I have a question about Throat Erosion measurement. Each rifle OEM builds in a certain amount of free bore (distance between the chamber and the spot on the barrel where the lands and grooves begin) on their rifles. I use the comparative method taught to us by JB White to measure the free bore distance on my rifles that would include TE. This method determines the distance measured between a chambered blank round and the muzzle tip and a bare bullet pushed into the leading edge of the rifling and the muzzle tip. A 1/4" dowel rod inserted into the muzzle does the measuring. Obviously, the barrels with the least amount of throat erosion will have a lower reading. My rifles measurements are as follows:

    1917 Winchester M1917 = almost zero
    1943 Remington 03-A3 = 1/8"
    1944 Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1* = 1/4"

    All are excellent shooters. The only one of the three rifles that may have been in combat is the No. 4, hence the possibility of some throat erosion.

    So the question is, without knowing the original free bore that the OEM sets when building the rifle, how do we determine what is worn and what is normal? Should we assume that all OEM set free bore is 1/8" or less?

    I've always understood that an eroded throat increases free bore and causes lower muzzle velocity by allowing pressure to escape around the bullet while a worn muzzle will allow the bullet to wobble or keyhole and have a greater impact on accuracy. All of the above rifles look great on a muzzle gauge.
    Last edited by Merc; 01-16-2017 at 06:34.

  4. #14

    Default

    Sorry I have not been back for a bit, too many interests.

    I don't have a great answer for your question, the only TE gauges I know of are made for the 1903.

    I had an email discussion with Steven Mathews and he said ( and my experience indicates the same) that while its not been calibrated to that gun, its close enough to give you a good idea.

    The 1917s were made to the same spec, the one I know had a lot of use shows more wear than the others.

    Otherwise you can compare mil surplus ammo and then do the check to see how much free bore it has and how bad that may or may not be.

    Best guess would be anything past .080 is probably worn, I may play with some HXP and see what that comes out to.

    The steps on the TE gauge are .150 and go to 8. 6+ is the rejection range

    My Step Dads fathers rifles still shoots and pretty good with the right loads and its up around 5.

    From the plugs on it, it was used for target shooting (scope mounts per the old long scopes) . Looks to have passed on when it started to loose target accuracy but was a hunting rifle for 30 years or more.
    Last edited by RC20; 01-28-2017 at 04:54.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •