Joe also suspected it might have been from Bannerman purchase of unopened cases of1866's. The condition of the stock and metal were the main players in that opinon.Originally Posted by Fred
Senior Member
Joe also suspected it might have been from Bannerman purchase of unopened cases of1866's. The condition of the stock and metal were the main players in that opinon.
Last edited by p246; 12-16-2016 at 04:40.
Senior Member
The owner is a old collector friend of mine named Chuck. Chuck and his father collected milsurps for decades, his father passing in the 90's Chuck inherited everything his father had collected. He also continued to collect until about 2005. His collection is, well it fills a basement. Rifles, bayonets, web gear, helmets, uniforms, its amazing. He has two children and neither are interested in the collection. His motivation for selling them is his kids have no idea what it is and he might as well sell it and they can inherit cash.
A few years ago Chuck began to sell a few British items, since that's my main collection interest I bought a few very nice Lee Enfields and bayonets from him. Unlike everone else if his price was fair I did not try and beat him down. If he was high I just asked about something else. I think he appreciated this and although friends before that sure didn't hurt. Eventually he asked if I would sell a few things on the internet for him, and I have. He releases stuff slowly as some of it is difficult for him to party with.
Your rifle was purchased by his father in the mid 1960's. Chuck got out of the Marine Corps in 1964 and he remembers it was after he got back, so late 64 or 1965. He thinks his father bought it at Mayfields Hardware store in Independence, Mo. Mayfields was a 1/2 hardware store 1/2 milsurp store. The owner had good contacts and got a lot of neat items in. Now Chucks father also hit every gun show in the Kansas City Metro area, so it his memory is off it would have been a gun show purchase.
His father and he were very good keepers of their collection. His father would once a year put a light layer of one part linseed oil three parts turpentine on a cotton rag. He would then wipe down all the woodwork. This was described as more keep it clean than anything else. He would also oil the metal and punch the bores with a wet patch followed by a dry patch. Odd enough neither him nor Chuck were shooters and they never shot any of their rifles. They did shoot a few of their milsurp pistols.
When Chuck inherited stuff he kept this up till about 2014. His health declined to where he just couldn't do it. I would like to have bought that gun but I bought the type 1 Navy Rolling Block out of the group of older guns. If you look on gunbroker on my listings you will see a 1831 Nathan Starr Contract musket and a 1890 cartouched Springfield Trapdoor. Chuck and his dad had a very particular way how each gun was put back in their racks. He had a wood rack with all the older stuff in it. In the first slot was the Nathan Starr, in the second slot was your Allen Conversion, in the third slot was the Type 1 Navy, in the fourth slot was the 1890 trapdoor, and in the fifth slot was another Trapdoor that was a cut down rifle. If anyone had moved them out of place his head would snap to that rack and he would fix it. It seems strange seeing only the cut down trapdoor in that rack now, but that's how life works. (The cut down trapdoor has an interesting story of its own for another time).
I hope you enjoy it and it defiantly went to a good home. Its also nice to see a rifle sold to someone you kinda know from the interweb.
Senior Member
Hey I really appreciate the information! I grew up in Kansas City and often drove through Independence. I used to know and visit with old Barney Joe Davies who lived On Truman Road. Barney was one of the old timers who collected and sold and traded antique Firearms in Kansas City since before WWII. I'll bet that Chucks dad knew him.
The rifle is neat. I noticed that while everything on the 1866 was new and unused, the lock plate was off of another rifle. That plate was dented, pitted, scratched and worn quite a bit on the edges. So what probably happened was that the rifle was part of a lot that had their locks pulled and cleaned or oiled before being put away in storage. The lock to this rifle must've gone onto another during reassembly of the rifles.
That happens. Anyway, I'd recently acquired a pristine 1864 dated lock plate of the correct type (this rifle originally being an 1864 or 1863 Type II Rifled Musket made in 1864) so I just mounted it on this rifle. Now everything is as it was. The rifle is going to be shot along with my 1868's. Anyone need an old 1863 lock?
Last edited by Fred; 12-16-2016 at 06:05.
Senior Member
I remember seeing the rifle after reading a post about it here on this site. I wanted to buy it then but had to sell some items first. Thanks for letting us all know about it! It took a little while but I finaly got it.
Last edited by Fred; 12-16-2016 at 06:10.
Senior Member
I'd love to hear how it shoots...
Senior Member
Whenever Spring Arrives!
Very Senior Member - OFC
I love to read about trapdoors in this context.
Senior Member
That's REALLY Neat information! Old Barney Joe was the same way. All of those old collectors were pretty interesting men weren't they!
Senior Member
I should add Joe has no internet. He has stacks of books, copies of articles etc. He walked over to a three ring binder and pulled an article over the box car incident. He pulled out another binder with an article on Erskin Allen. I hope my mind is 1/2 as sharp as his when I get his age.
As a side note Joe was a rifleman in the Berlin Brigade I think from 61 to 63. His unit was the first to receive the first magazine fed Garand with improved gas system....his words. I think the rest of you old grunts called them M 14s. He always said it was a multi role gun in full auto. First three rds were for landwarfar, next 17 was for anti aircraft protection.
Member
10-4 on that I trained at Ft. Ord with the M1 grand in 61 loved it. They had some of the then new M14's so we got to handle, disassemble them and trial fire, terrible gun. the guy's coming back from Nam into my unit at Ft. Knox were saying that all the guy's that could get rid of the 14 and pick up a Grand would do so in a heartbeat same with the early M16's they hated them. M1's were reliable, accurate, and had more fire power over the 7.62 NATO round in the 14's and the 16's jammed at the drop of a hat if dirt was nearby.
Jim O
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote