I have what appears to be an actual Air Service Handguard - and in fifty years of attending gunshows, I have never seen a complete Air Service rifle to handle. Lots of high cap magazines, but not much else. CC
Senior Member
I have what appears to be an actual Air Service Handguard - and in fifty years of attending gunshows, I have never seen a complete Air Service rifle to handle. Lots of high cap magazines, but not much else. CC
Colt, Glock and Remington factory trained LE Armorer
LE Trained Firearms Instructor
Senior Member
Now all you need, is research the Sprinfield Armory files at NARA or SAHS, and see if you can come up with the dwgs for the Air Service Magazine parts, and find a 'tin basher' who can make up a repro magazine. and try it out in a rifle.
R Brown
Senior Member
Several odd parts on the Air Service - like no rear sling swivel cut or lightening cuts in the stock, and the Enfield (?) band. The rear sight doesn't look too hard to duplicate. You can still find the big 20 round magazine - usually in the box - for $800-1000! CC
Last edited by Col. Colt; 12-21-2016 at 12:02.
Colt, Glock and Remington factory trained LE Armorer
LE Trained Firearms Instructor
Senior Member
I saw this digging in a ordnance manual from Nov 1918.Originally Posted by Richard H Brown Jr
Senior Member
I somewhere have the original drawings for the stock, but couldn't find them on my iPad.
Senior Member
The Air Service Rifles are interesting. Another faired experimental design. At the time of the development of the Air Service Rifle, the Aviation Bureau was already looking into adding a machine gun for the defenseless observer, which made the Air Service Rifle obsolete.
Taken from a memorandum from the AEF HQ dated May 15, 1918 concerning the 1903 modified for Air Service emergency use.
"It is the opinion of this section it is a waste of money to purchase emergency arms for airplane use and it is a waste of tonnage to bring them to Europe. The emergency arm is a relic of airplane warefare as it previously existed."
"If we consider the actual state of affairs on our own front today, we find that the 1st Aero Squadron (Observation), which is the only two-seater aero squadron on our front, only one observer out of eighteen in the Squadron even thinks of carrying an emergency arm."
The Air Service Rifle may have saw some use in Europe, but the documentation points to that it saw limited at best and was not well received.
Last edited by Smokeeaterpilot; 12-24-2016 at 08:21.
Member
Is that the one I sent you? If so, what were your thoughts on it once you got better pictures ?
Senior Member
It was the rifle in question. I honestly don't know if the rifle is genuine or not. When it comes to traits, finishes and authentic vs "made," I leave that to the experts.
The documentation and correspondence on the Air Service Rifle I obtained at the NARA, mostly indicated that at the time the rifle was being produced by Springfield Armory, the Air Service Bureau had other ideas in mind for the unarmed observer and that it was never adopted and standard equipment. It does indicate some were used in VERY limited amounts on the front, although a specific number was not indicated. It seems that its service life was limited at best.
It also indicates a large portion were found at Raritan Arsenal in storage after WWI in unserviceable condition and that "when funds become available" (which is a very important quotation considering the funds available post WWI for the Ordnance Department) they are to be shipped to Springfield Armory to be repaired. In my opinion, that means they were to be turned back into service rifles and reissued. But I can't say that definitively. If that actually happened and they met I different fate, I am not quite sure.
Last edited by Smokeeaterpilot; 12-24-2016 at 01:23.
Senior Member
According to one of Gen Pershing's communications to ANWAR, Pershing recommended "stripped" 1903 rifles with 10-round magazines be issued to pilots and bombers for use until the Browning Automatics arrived. Pershing would need 825 of these "emergency rifles" by 1 June 1918. It wasn't long after that time they started issuing Brownings. Pershing had ordered 5,000 riot guns already and would order shotguns for aviation as required. Looks like both rifles and shotguns were used by Aviation.
jt
Senior Member
It does not look like rifles or shotguns were used by the air service in large numbers in France. At least by the American flyers.
Taken from an investigation discussed at the the 3rd Armry HQ November 1917 concerning emergency arms for pilots, it stated: “The emergency arm must be one with automatic repetition, and it seems that the Winchester would be proper, notwithstanding the feeble initial speed of its projectile, because it is only to be used short range, 50 meters maximum, unless the fire necessitates no ranging. However, it would be of great interest if the arm was more powerful, the Winchester caliber 401 particularly would be more convenient because of the size of the projectile and of its greater initial speed. Moreover, all the bullets of the emergency arms should be either incendiary or explosive bullets.
It makes no mention of a Remington automatic shotguns or Browning Automatics. If there was a Winchester automatic shotgun, it could be referencing that in the first sentence. I’m not sure. I don’t know if there was one at that time.
May 1918, a memorandum from the Chief of Staff stated: “our Air service is planning to mount two flexible machine guns, connected together by a jumelle, for the use of each airplane observer. They mention shipping emergency arms to France would be a waste of funding and tonnage.
October 1918, the General staff disapproves of the proposition of an emergency armament. They still request that the Air Service Rifle be given extensive testing for use as emergency weapons and if found desirable they would reopen the matter.
Early November 1918, the Head of the Aircraft Armament Section stated there is absolutely no demand for reserve rifles for use as emergency weapons by the observers. He goes further to recommend that the 680 Air Service Rifles be issued to dispatch riders and automobile protection, as they could be better use there. He further states that they were in storage at the time (except for the 25 used for testing at the front lines).
The trail of document starts to end around 1920 when Springfield Armory Commanding Officer issues a revision to 3 drawing number items of the Air Service Rifle. The Small Arms Division Chief states that the article in question is no longer in use and probably never will be used again and it would be a waste of time and money to update the revision and they can take up if the article see use in the future.
I did find the equipment list and allotments for Squadrons. It lists all equipment right down to the number of spoons, forks, clothing, etc. each squadron should have. It makes no mention an emergency armament in its standard equipment.
The sequence of events points to the fact that the Air Service rifle saw almost no use outside the 25 used for experimental testing. It also indicates that the emergency rifle was never regarded as a high priority item. It may have gotten some traction early on, but it seemed to be a low priority item at best. It alludes the Air Service Bureau was more concerned with equipping the rear observer with a machine gun rather than an emergency arm. There are gaps in the dates, however everything keeps pointing back to only 25 Air Service Rifles saw use in experimental purposes only and the Chief of Staff and Air Service Bureau did not pursue an emergency arm in widespread numbers.
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