Why so few 1896 rifles?

[Dick Hosmer]

I have apparently reached the age where I should look before I write. I do seem to recall that Joe moved the mark on the 1896/1898, but it must have been from 1092xx to 1091xx (his book not handy at present) not dipping all the way down under 109xxx. I hope he corrects me.

With all of the above responses noted, I still think the likehood of a blip at that particular changeover is much less likely than at any of the others. Not saying it could not happen, just saying it is unlikely.

Here are a couple of earlier examples with an obvious difference in the numbered part itself. Bear in mind that these examples were made by basically the same work force, on the same machinery, under the same basic system of operation, only a very few years apart.

(1) The trapdoor receiver underwent a significant change in late 1878, somewhere between 96271 and 96309. NO overlaps have ever come forward.
(2) The 100 receivers made in 1888 (from 4155xx to 4156xx) for the positive cam rifles, run (including a handful of overuns) consecutively. That is not random chance, some of the "experimental" models span many thousands of numbers.

[5MadFarmers]

(2) The 100 receivers made in 1888 (from 4155xx to 4156xx) for the positive cam rifles, run (including a handful of overuns) consecutively. That is not random chance, some of the "experimental" models span many thousands of numbers.

Yet the Krag Board of Ordnance rifles are scattered.....

What that points to is "what is the gun?" If the receiver isn't unique one can just grab standard receivers. If the receiver is unique it'd be more "tool room" type fab. I'd suspect the PC trapdoors were more tool room whereas the Board Krags were clearly not.

Which gets to the point of a serial number right? "Accounting." When an Officer signs for 20 guns he's responsible for them. They're listed by serial. Accounting. When he issues them to the men they are issued a rifle and sign for it.

Models for parts.
Serials for accounting.

No different from VIN numbers really. Unique number simply to identify that specific item.

In other words we tend to give serial numbers meaning they really didn't have. Thus we tend to give it meaning beyond what it had. Thus it's more important than it was at the time. Thus they just didn't sweat it as much as we tend to. The overlaps show that pretty well.

Guns in the 120K range are going to be 1898s. Guns in the 100K range are going to be 1896s. At the border one expects to see some weirdness as it's changeover. What I'd not expect to see is an 1898 rifle with the 1896 bolt. Models mattered more. At least during manufacture. During rebuild and in unit repair one never knows. "Does it shoot?" "No." "Make it so Sergeant."

[Dick Hosmer]

Of course the BOoFs were scattered - clearly they grabbed existing rifles from storage and modified them, the only 'newly-made' part was the stock. Even that could have been accomplished, on the "line" by omitting one router cut and sliding the stop gauge 4" before turning for the upper band. The sight leaves were stamped by hand, on carbine blanks - probably even the ramp flats were simply filed and stoned.

I accept all of what you say about "numbers" per se, but I believe what is important in this case is the significant physical change on the numbered part itself.

[butlersrangers]

FWIW: The attached three photographs are of model 1896 Krags, that were at one time, listed on gunbroker as "model 1898" Krags.

(I realize and accept, as Mr. Farmer appears to indicate, an error in reading the 'model date' or serial number, could have occurred as easily in the past, as it could today, creating some false data).

We have all probably seen Krags that had serial numbers or model dates, that were not clearly stamped, badly worn, or corroded and easily misread.

My point is: On auction sites, an item will sometimes be mislabeled. Having knowledge and spotting 'mistakes' may be to your advantage. Some sought after items are 'hidden in plain sight'.

krag 92 side-plate3.jpgneo-krag3.jpgredcoat1.jpg

[Kragrifle]

And then there is the Model 1897.....

[Dick Hosmer]

FWIW:

. . . . . My point is: On auction sites, an item will sometimes be mislabeled. Having knowledge and spotting 'mistakes' may be to your advantage. Some sought after items are 'hidden in plain sight'.

That is exactly how I fell into my two 26" BoOF rifles, the first was in a carbine stock, the second had the stock chopped and sold for just $350! In both cases, knowing the serial number range and what an arsenal sight and crown look like, made the deal. You can find plenty of shortened Krags - just need to sort the wheat from the chaff.