Surplus LC brass

[fguffey]

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html

And then if the difference between the 308 W chamber and the 7.62 NATO chambers can be believed the 7.65 NATO chamber starts out longer and more generous. And then there is that thing about being pulled/or is it pushed from the chamber before the pressures drops.

F. Guffey

[p246]

[QUOTE=fguffey;477566]http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html

And then if the difference between the 308 W chamber and the 7.62 NATO chambers can be believed the 7.65 NATO chamber starts out longer and more generous. And then there is that thing about being pulled/or is it pushed from the chamber before the pressures drops.

You brought up a great point here. Being a FN FAL guy I ran into an issue with a build in the 90s. It was a South African Metric Kit that ended up in Rhodesia. This was one of the beater kits on the cheap. I think I paid 89.00 for the kit. Built it on an Imbel Receiver. Once built it would shoot 7.62 by 51 fine. With 308 brass I had to be opened up the gas adjustment and it stretched the case badly length wise. Being a newb at the time I had to consult with a gunsmith. The chamber was generous even for 7.62 and he told me to stay away from 308. It would shoot steel case Russian 308 though FYI.

There is also an intel report from Syria where ISIS was having issues shooting commercial 308 in their FN FALs. I hope a few of those blew. Anyway there is a difference as I learned the hard way.

As far as measuring shoulder to base, flash hole size etc. I do now but bench rest reloading got me into that. In the early days I shoulder bumped to SAMMI specs and trimmed.

If my case work hardens below the shoulder in 308 or 7.62 I scrap them, but I have access to free brass in 4 calibers those being two of them.

I generally like Lake City Brass. I was given A bunch of LC 69 in 30-06 and got a bucket full of 7.62 X 51 about 10 years ago. It's mixed year but has been consistent.

[nf1e]

Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.

[fguffey]

Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.

So you did not measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before firing and you did not measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head after sizing? Meaning you do not know if your chamber caused the case head separation; nor do you know if the cases heads were well on their way to separating before you started.

F. Guffey

[nf1e]

Of coarse I did. I started with new M80 147 gr LC 10. These would have been in the neighborhood of 1.627 -8 before 1st firing. When resized I bring them to 1.628 and they are fired in .308 chambers that I cut to 1.632. If they had been good brass initially, this would not have happened. I run many K of varied brass annually and this is the first time in over 50 years that I have seen this result. Normally I can expect a minimum of 4 to 6 loadings on good brass. I just ran a batch of RA-68 600 rounds that is on it's 5 th loading and will join the LC10 in the salvage bucket in the next couple of weeks.

[fguffey]

Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.

These would have been in the neighborhood of 1.627 -8 before 1st firing. When resized I bring them to 1.628 and they are fired in .308 chambers that I cut to 1.632.

I understood everything you said; The difference in length between the case from the shoulder of the case to case head and shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face was .004". I can reduce the clearance to .000" but there is no manufacturer that makes a new case for long chambers so I form long cases to off set the extra length of a long chamber. Then there is that part that is complicated; that would be the part that comes when the trigger is pulled: Reloaders are infatuated with 'moving the shoulder', I always ask; "How do you do that?" because I find it almost impossible and then they claim they 'bump' the shoulder and again I ask; "How do you do that?".

Long chamber? You do not have a long chamber and there is no reason for you to experience case head separation on the first firing.

F. Guffey

[Randy]

My M-1 Garand has a Navy NM 308 Barrel on it. Reason for the 308 barrel was the lack of 3006 brass on the base I worked on. I started with a 5 gallon bucket of M-60 machinegun brass. I dumped half of it in the tub ( wife claws came out on that one) added some very warm water and a LOT of Dawn dish washing soap. I wanted to make sure the brass was oil and dirt free. Remember this brass came out of the field. Then I got in trouble again. Just because I used the wife's cookie sheets to dry the brass in the oven ( 100 degree's ) she once again said gee whiz. Once the brass was clean and dry I started working on it I used a RCBS single stage sizing die and went to work. I lubed each piece and ran it through the die which also deprimed it. Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die. Those are the one's that went into the recycle can. It lead me to believe that some M-60 machine gun chambers are a little to big in diameter. The good stuff went into the tumbler. I used a Grace case trimmer to get them all the same length. I set the trimmer using a case length gauge Then broke out the Dillon swagger and swaged all the primer pockets..I then chucked the primer pocket reamer in my electric drill, gently put the drill in the vice and made sure all the primer pockets were the same. Agreed this was a lot of work and time consuming, but it payed off. I still shoot this stuff. Have reloaded some of it on more than one occasion WITH NOT ONE CASE SEPERATION OR JAM. I use Winchester primers, 42 grains of 4065 and 168 grain sierra hpbt projectiles .

[p246]

My M-1 Garand has a Navy NM 308 Barrel on it. Reason for the 308 barrel was the lack of 3006 brass on the base I worked on. I started with a 5 gallon bucket of M-60 machinegun brass. I dumped half of it in the tub ( wife claws came out on that one) added some very warm water and a LOT of Dawn dish washing soap. I wanted to make sure the brass was oil and dirt free. Remember this brass came out of the field. Then I got in trouble again. Just because I used the wife's cookie sheets to dry the brass in the oven ( 100 degree's ) she once again said gee whiz. Once the brass was clean and dry I started working on it I used a RCBS single stage sizing die and went to work. I lubed each piece and ran it through the die which also deprimed it. Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die. Those are the one's that went into the recycle can. It lead me to believe that some M-60 machine gun chambers are a little to big in diameter. The good stuff went into the tumbler. I used a Grace case trimmer to get them all the same length. I set the trimmer using a case length gauge Then broke out the Dillon swagger and swaged all the primer pockets..I then chucked the primer pocket reamer in my electric drill, gently put the drill in the vice and made sure all the primer pockets were the same. Agreed this was a lot of work and time consuming, but it payed off. I still shoot this stuff. Have reloaded some of it on more than one occasion WITH NOT ONE CASE SEPERATION OR JAM. I use Winchester primers, 42 grains of 4065 and 168 grain sierra hpbt projectiles .

I always make sure wife is gone when I borrow her stuff for reloading

[fguffey]

Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die.

Who measures before and again after? The 308 Military chamber is generous after that there are methods and techniques. I use a no-name lube, for most work any case lube will do but there are exceptions. And I have forming dies. I have a 308 W forming die, the 308 W forming die forms 30/06 cases to 308 W with ease; after forming it is necessary to size the case to 308 W in a full length sizing die. Nothing works better than new cases when forming, after that comes once fired, the worst cases to form are cases that have been fired in ugly chambers. No one measures before and again after. If I am going to shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head I want to know by how much. If I am going to reduce the diameter of the case I want to know by how much. And I have to have a press that has the ability to overcome the case's ability to resist sizing.

And then there are the other factors, one is pressure. A case that is hammered with high pressure is more difficult to sized than a case fired with normal pressure.

I purchased a new Winchester Model 70 300 Winchester Mag rifle, it had the ugliest chamber I have ever seen. I have small base dies, I have forming dies for the 300 Win Mag, I have BAR RCBS 300 Win Mag dies etc. etc. I contacted Winchester, I wanted a chamber that matched my dies or a Winchester die that matched their chamber. Long story, they sent the rifle back in a new box. I dug it out after they returned it 15 +/- a few years ago, I loaded 100 rounds and then changed my mind about going to the range and gave the 100 rounds to my son, he has my other 300 Win Mag. It shoots one hole groups, it is not a Winchester.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I always make sure wife is gone when I borrow her stuff for reloading

I was building and repairing scales when she noticed one beam that (according to her) required cleaning. My fault, I was not listening, she took off with the beam and came back after cleaning it. I do not know what she used but the beam came back with out a number or mark, the beam was white. As always I called RCBS and told on her, not recommended, anyhow they would not send me stickers for replacement and if I sent it to them they had the option to repair and or replace and I did not want to exchange a 10-10 for an import.

The next gun show I attended I found two beams for $5.00 each and though I was ahead because shipping to RCBS would be at least $5.00.

F. Guffey