Universal receiver and double springs

[Chaz]

I just offered to clean up a neighbor's rusty and grime-encrusted carbine that he "...paid $90 for 40 years ago." SN is in the 100,000 range so I assumed it's an Inland. The top front of the receiver is stamped "Universal Hialeah FL". I searched "Universal" in this forum and found out that rec'r production was contracted out by Inland. Fine so far, but when I removed the stock, I found that it has two (2) side-by-side oprod springs (similar to an AR180)! My experience is with M1 rifles and I only have one carbine (single spring) so what is this rust-coated thing? Thanks.

Chaz

[Allen]

This carbine WAS made by Universal and NOT contracted out by Inland. It is a cheapo civilian model and not a USGI model. The 2 spring models were not totally reliable nor safe when new. Since it is already rusty and grimy I would use it as a wall hanger only.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.html

[bonnie]

A double recoil spring Universal also has the open cut op rod where the right lug of the bolt is visible. Very few minor parts interchange with the USGI carbine. The op rod was know to crack in the cutout for the bolt lug. Hard to find replacement parts if needed. Universal made several hundred thousands of these double recoil spring guns, 1960s-1980s. Been out of business for many years.
Not well thought of by many carbine people.

Have never heard Inland had anything to do with Universal. Inland was out of the carbine business when WWII ended.

This web sight is worth the read.
[url]http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.


Edit: And what Allen said.

[Chaz]

Thanks because, as I wrote, I know 'nuttin' about carbines! On closer inspection after cleaning, it looks very strange (with curious welds) when compared to my Winchester. There is a 5-16-2016 post here by Calfed regarding "Universal Winding" making receivers for Inland and I thought there might be a connection with "Universal" in Hialeah. Poor Billy can add this to his other wall hangers.
Chaz

[PhillipM]

No connection whatsoever. It's a cast receiver made in the 70's. Quality is considered bottom of the barrel, but yours hopefully shoots well

[Chaz]

"...yours hopefully shoots well"

I'd never buy anything like this. Owner said he used to shoot it. It was stored for years in a black plastic garbage bag in the corner of his shop (a metal building with concrete floor!). I was shocked to see the rust and filth when he showed it to me, and offered to clean it for him. Today I dismantled it and found it curiously different from my only carbine. Wiping off layers of crud, I saw the "Universal" stamping at the forward end of the rec'r and the strange double springs. I'll clean it, test fire it and then return it to him with the revelation that it was once Gen MacArthur's personal weapon and should be preserved without further use.

When I wrote that I know nothing about carbines, I meant that I do not collect them and therefore am not familiar with subcontractors and post-War copies. I really appreciate all of your clarifications.
Thanks, Chaz

[Tuna]

When Universal started making carbine, the only thing they made was the receiver. The rest was USGI parts. As those parts were not obtainable they started to make their own parts and that is when the quality started down hill. The first approximate 25,000 were consider to be decent carbines. Then they started to make their own parts. By the time of their making slides and bolts and using the double recoil springs it was just about nothing left on them that was USGI and the parts would no long fit if USGI. Redesigned trigger housing and group along with a stock to fit the redesigned housing did nothing to add to the quality of the Universal carbine. By the end of production the carbines being made were considered to be very poor quality and of course parts are not available if something breaks as they have been out of business since the early 1980's.

[Sunray]

$90 for 40 years ago was a big pile of money.
As mentioned, Universal's with 2 springs are not issue. Strictly commercial after Universal thought they could improve on the design. They didn't. And they used poorly made stamped parts. Like the Op Handle that tend to break.
Your's is what's called a Late Model Universal. Zero collector value and since it's rusted it's probably not worth doing anything with. Oddly enough, they do work and shoot fairly well until they do break though. Some issue parts will work/fit, but nothing internal. Mags and sights work just fine.
"...parts are not available..." Gunparts has some, but cheap they ain't. That Op Handle, when they had any(currently sold out and nobody will likely be making any), ran $89.95.

[Chris W.]

When I was repairing one for a friend, did a little research on them. The 2 spring universal ended up having a safety problem with several shooters being hurt by the slide letting go of the bolt and the bolt ending up in the shooters face. They were several law suits that added to universal's problems. At some point the company was sold to Johnson, but soon to go out of production. Those 2 spring models with the stamped parts are considered by many to be unsafe to fire. I'm no expert, but after reading that, I wouldn't put one to my face and find out the hard way.
Chris

[Tuna]

After being sold to Iver Johnson the Universal was still made in Florida till Iver Johnson moved to Arkansas. At that point in time the Universal production was moved too and the employees were offered jobs in Arkansas which most refused. So Universal production ended and that was a good thing as those being made at IJ were of extreamly poor quality and a bit later IJ was sold. When that happened their quality started to take a hit too. It wasn't too much longer before IJ company was dissolved.