USMC Sniper on James Julia Auction

[Ls6man]

Larry...good to see you on here again...

Here is a real rifle that I just picked up last month (finally..lol). Larry we documented this one back in the 90's...Not sure if you remember it..The scope is obviously not correct, so need to pick up a correct scope. The rifle is right as rain though. This one falls into the last shipment to the USMC.

Greg

http://s147.photobucket.com/user/ls6...iper%201526846

[cplnorton]

That is still the nicest condition wise I've ever seen Greg.

Beautiful rifle.

[Promo]

Greg, once more congratulations to this rifle. Glad that you were able to buy it. And the fact that it comes with the fingergroove stock makes it very special too.

Steve, one of my rifles came through Cowan's auctions. John Beard verified it back then. It has a mismatching bolt (but electropenciled too), and the description simply said "consignor states that this is a USMC sniper rifle".

[Big Larry]

I had a mint one years ago. The only problem with it, was the stock had been checkered. Replaced the stock with a nice SA/SPG "C" stock and sold it for $4,000. Good price back then. Found this rifle in a rack at the old Sacramento gun show. These rifles have really gone up in value, but there are 99 fakes to one legit rifle. I had three, a lifetime supply, but sold them all a few years ago. No doubt on Gregs rifle. It's a real one, but to scope it may cost him well over $5000 in today's market, but then, the rifle is worth more than $20,000. Big Larry

[clintonhater]

Steve, one of my rifles came through Cowan's auctions. John Beard verified it back then. It has a mismatching bolt (but electropenciled too), and the description simply said "consignor states that this is a USMC sniper rifle".

A modest & appropriate description. Even something like "appears correct and original to the best of our knowledge and information" would not be going too far in the direction of shameless hype. But Julia's "fantastic...unquestionably original and correct," are the words of a huckster.

[cplnorton]

Oh crap I did know that one came from Cowan's Georg. I just forgot you had told me that.

Really honestly after you see more than a couple, they are pretty easy to pick out. I have wondered many times, if the details of these rifles were more well known, would it cut down the number of fakes, or just make them better? I sometimes think even though some of the traits are easy to fake, I really don't know if someone could get enough right to get it to pass as real. Especially now that it really needs to match up with a NM order to the Marines.

The only thing that sucks about Greg's rifle, I liked being able to claim I was the only one with a Grasping Groove stock. Now I can't say that. Even though technically his found many years earlier than mine was. lol

[Promo]

Larry, where and how was the stock checkered? Did you consider it could had been done by someone in the USMC?

[Big Larry]

Most of the M1903's were sold around the mid 50's as surplus to the Marines for $25. You got in a line and they handed you a rifle. Only the officers were allowed to go in and pick and choose. Some were sold at Camp Pendleton and some at Barstow Logistics Base. At least I have had three documented M1903's from these facilities. Probably were also sold on the East Coast Marine Bases as well. What these folks did with their $25 treasures is anyones guess. Most probably wound up as Sporters like a good friend of mines Dad did to his. His standard grade M1903A1 also came from Pendleton. Another friend, a USMC Major got one with scope bases attached. He picked it as it had a star gauged bbl. I was able to ascertain it to be a genuine USMC Sniper. I even found him a scope for it and he gave it to his Son. Years ago, I actually had some folks send me their rifles for authentication. At that time, I was pretty much the Guru of 1903A1/Unertls. I wrote a couple of articles for Springfield Research for Frank Mallory who was a great help to me.
I still have my 7-42 M1903 USMC rifle rework that my Dad bought for my 12th birthday. Docs are dated 9-23-1954. It has a 1910 numbered receiver and has been retired since I was in the Marines in 1963. Big Larry

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Big Larry, You and Jim Gaynor are still the 1903A1 Unertl gurus. Nothing has changed but time.

jt

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

....if the details of these rifles were more well known, would it cut down the number of fakes, or just make them better?....

Seven years ago when I joined this forum, we were having this same discussion. The details of these rifles have been known for decades, and very good fakes abound. I have seen pristine rifles on this very forum, yet considering the conditions in which they were used, they should look heavily used and pitted. They existed in a salty, high humidity, rain soaked environment; yet I haven't seen any examples that show such use. They are essentially NM rifles with a 7.8X Unertl mounted on them. Gen Van Orden, who with Gunner Calvin Lloyd, was responsible for the adoption of these rifles, stated that those issued were all not NM rifles, but some were standard rifles made up to NM standards.

With 1500 to 1750 original rifles, and the attrition rate of men and equipment in the Pacific war, I am amazed any of them still exist. I presume we could estimate the number of rifles that survived by the number of Unertls available in RVN.

jt