Annealing question

[psteinmayer]

That looks to work pretty well too!

[fguffey]

[QUOTE=p246;466597]Well I tried Parashooters method tonight since I was annealing some 6.5 X 55. I still used Templac I guess just because I always have. It worked just fine although the annealing color was not as equal as using the two torch system I have but of course it cost more than your method. [QUOTE]

Meaning you stopped annealing the case when the case head got too hot to hold or did the templac indicated the shoulder neck got hot enough? With one torch and what would have been the advantage of using two torches? You have to remember in the beginning some reloaders used candles as a heat source and held the case in their hand.

F. Guffey

[Merc]

Ok, to summarize, the best temperature to anneal brass is about 700 degrees. Heating beyond that temperature can make the brass too soft and reduce neck tension and possibly soften the entire case (undesirable) instead of just the neck area unless it's half submerged in water. Observing a change in the color of the heated brass while holding it with bare fingers is one simple approximate way to reach the desired neck temperature and applying Tempilaq to the neck is more precise but also more expensive.

What about annealing to 700 degrees every time a case neck is resized? Will that also make the brass too soft and decrease neck tension? I only mention this because of how complicated it is to keep track of how many times a case has been resized since I only shoot a few cartridges at a time.

[kcw]

Ok, to summarize, the best temperature to anneal brass is about 700 degrees. Heating beyond that temperature can make the brass too soft and reduce neck tension and possibly soften the entire case (undesirable) instead of just the neck area unless it's half submerged in water. Observing a change in the color of the heated brass while holding it with bare fingers is one simple approximate way to reach the desired neck temperature and applying Tempilaq to the neck is more precise but also more expensive.

What about annealing to 700 degrees every time a case neck is resized? Will that also make the brass too soft and decrease neck tension? I only mention this because of how complicated it is to keep track of how many times a case has been resized since I only shoot a few cartridges at a time.

I keep 50 round lots, segregated to each of my three 303's, in those translucent 50 round plastic boxes (made for "large rifle") with the flip up lid. I keep wherever info I want on the piece of paper that I lightly glue to the inside of the lid. When you finish with the last round in box you could make a "hash" mark indicating that the lot has been fired one time, make additional marks as needed. As I long ago determined my "pet" 303 loads, I always reload the entire 50 rounds after the last round in the box is fired. The one thing that I learned long ago about reloading management was to use the batch method after you determine what shoots good. Other than for experimental purposes, loading a half dozen rounds of this or that will cause you to lose track of what's what.

[p246]

[QUOTE=fguffey;466744][QUOTE=p246;466597]Well I tried Parashooters method tonight since I was annealing some 6.5 X 55. I still used Templac I guess just because I always have. It worked just fine although the annealing color was not as equal as using the two torch system I have but of course it cost more than your method. [QUOTE]

Meaning you stopped annealing the case when the case head got too hot to hold or did the templac indicated the shoulder neck got hot enough? With one torch and what would have been the advantage of using two torches? You have to remember in the beginning some reloaders used candles as a heat source and held the case in their hand.

With the 223 case my fingers got "uncomfortable". Mainly because the case is so much shorter-fingers closer to torch. I'm annealing from a bench rest background. Most people would never spend the time on brass prep I do. I will also admit some of that carry over to milsurp reloading is probably over kill based on habit.

With the 2 torch method the flame envelopes the brass case giving a good even distribution of heat. If you want perfect release from the case mouth that even annealing is in play. Second reason is speed. I anneal a lot so if I can cut the process from 2 seconds per case to 1 that helps as time is my biggest hurdle. For plinking most of the above mentioned processes work just fine.

[Merc]

KCW,

Makes sense. You tend to spread wear out that way. So, how many times do you fire the group befor annealing them?

Merc

[p246]

Ok, to summarize, the best temperature to anneal brass is about 700 degrees. Heating beyond that temperature can make the brass too soft and reduce neck tension and possibly soften the entire case (undesirable) instead of just the neck area unless it's half submerged in water. Observing a change in the color of the heated brass while holding it with bare fingers is one simple approximate way to reach the desired neck temperature and applying Tempilaq to the neck is more precise but also more expensive.

What about annealing to 700 degrees every time a case neck is resized? Will that also make the brass too soft and decrease neck tension? I only mention this because of how complicated it is to keep track of how many times a case has been resized since I only shoot a few cartridges at a time.

My benchrest gun is a 300 Win Mag. I get 12 to 1300 rds out of the barrel then its replaced. I buy 100 Rds of Norma Brass its annealed every reload. I run it through a Larry Willis Magnum Die to fix the bulge that forms in front of the band from reloading over and over. This is done every fourth reload. They are loaded with 80.1 grains Retumbo pushing Berger 215 Hybrids. Once the 1 in 9 twist barrel is burned out I toss the brass. I've burned out 3 barrels this way. 1 case neck cracked at the end of the barrel life. Annealing if done properly will extend brass life not shorten it.

[kcw]

KCW,

Makes sense. You tend to spread wear out that way. So, how many times do you fire the group befor annealing them?

Merc

I used to get a good 10 reloads after annealing. Of course my loads are rather mild, so that probably works into the equation. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts on this subject, I haven't bothered to anneal in many years because I seem to have a reliable supply of once fire 303 from my gun club. In recent years I've been collecting more brass than I'm using up. I partial resize any once fired "range brass" only to the point that the brass will just fit in the tightest of my 303's (a Winchester P-14). When I reach the point where I find a couple of splits in a box of 50, I cashier the batch to scrap and bring in 50 new ones from my stockpile of the partial resized range brass. All reloading thereafter is by neck sizing only with my old Lee loader. Depending on the maker, I'll get 15 reloads on most of this once fire stuff, more if I'm shooting cast.

[Merc]

I used to get a good 10 reloads after annealing. Of course my loads are rather mild, so that probably works into the equation. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts on this subject, I haven't bothered to anneal in many years because I seem to have a reliable supply of once fire 303 from my gun club. In recent years I've been collecting more brass than I'm using up. I partial resize any once fired "range brass" only to the point that the brass will just fit in the tightest of my 303's (a Winchester P-14). When I reach the point where I find a couple of splits in a box of 50, I cashier the batch to scrap and bring in 50 new ones from my stockpile of the partial resized range brass. All reloading thereafter is by neck sizing only with my old Lee loader. Depending on the maker, I'll get 15 reloads on most of this once fire stuff, more if I'm shooting cast.

It's interesting that you can get so many reloads without cracking necks. The necks have been cracking on my .303 PPU cases after just 3 or 4 reload cycles. That's why I'm tempted to anneal the necks every time. It only takes a few seconds to do so its no big deal unless annealing that often is causing the brass to soften excessively and affecting neck tension. I also use a Lee Loader with the recommended starting powder charge of BLC(2) so I'm not anywhere close to maximum charge and can still shoot accurately at 100 yards.

Merc

[kcw]

It's interesting that you can get so many reloads without cracking necks. The necks have been cracking on my .303 PPU cases after just 3 or 4 reload cycles. That's why I'm tempted to anneal the necks every time. It only takes a few seconds to do so its no big deal unless annealing that often is causing the brass to soften excessively and affecting neck tension. I also use a Lee Loader with the recommended starting powder charge of BLC(2) so I'm not anywhere close to maximum charge and can still shoot accurately at 100 yards.

Merc

The initial quality of the brass can have a huge effect on the ability to reload it. My 1st attempt at reloading was with the 303 in 1975 with the previously mentioned P-14. . At the time there was zero surplus military ammo to be had and limited commercial stuff. I bought 5 boxes of commercial rounds @ K-Mart for $4 a box on sale. It was Italian made Fiochi (sp?). That was the BEST brass I ever had in ANY caliber for reloading. Using my Lee Loader and the load chart included in the Lee kit, I got upwards of 30 reloads before the brass split! After I wore out the 1st box of 20 pieces without annealing I then started annealing with the next box. By the time I got started on the third box, surplus ammo was one again coming on the market, as was an increased supply of commercial ammo. I still have an untouched box of that K-mart ammo. Of course you can't discount the possibility that your rifle simply has an unusually large diameter in the neck area of the chamber. On the other hand you might try a box of a different brand, or two, of ammo