Theodore Roosevelt Commemorative Match

[madsenshooter]

I tried to talk them into letting me shoot my Krag in the Springfield match once, with the logic that it was made by Springfield Arsenal and says Springfield on it. That didn't float. But if I can't shoot my Krag in their match, why should they be allowed to shot their 03a3s in a match for Krags and 03s. But, if they get real specific, where's that leave Culpepper and his 95, or Lee Navy rifles? Anyway, here's a video Paul's son took with my camera. Must be something wrong with the contrast, my hair don't look that white when I look in the mirror! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYuCFjCuxEw

[psteinmayer]

You were next to a few friends if mine from western Michigan shooting on 90. I've been shooting with them for a few years now in local matches at KRGC in Kalamazoo, MI. One of them, David Graham was definitely shooting his Krag.

As for the match, I did fairly well initially, shooting a 96-1X in Slow Prone, and then pulled everything grouped low right for an 82-0X in Rapid. I fell apart in the Awful-Hand! I had a hard trigger on two which caused me to pull the barrel low and hit the berm, and then rushed a shot high for three misses, giving me a dismal 48-0X. All this for a whopping 226-1X! Oh well... next year, I'll take it by storm!!!

Wish I had known you were on 91... I would have said hi! Next year, maybe we can all get together afterwards with our Krags for a group photo!!!

[madsenshooter]

Never mind the photos, just get to the fish! LOL! Good stuff, even if they do come outta Lake Erie! That 130gr Special Ops bullet didn't seem to be so special at 200yds for me, it was like it would barely hold the bull, 8 out one side, then 8 out the other side or the same up and down. I only had one ten for the match, rest were 8s and 9s! No doubt a bit of it was me, but I usually hold pretty good from prone. Wound up with a 250, good for first position below middle of the pack. Works out the same if I only consider Krag scores.

[psteinmayer]

My friend Dave (shooting on FP 90) shot a 254-1X with his Krag... and was NOT happy with his results. At this point, I would be thrilled with the 254! If I had shot M2Phil's 270-1X... I would have required a change of undergarments! LOL

[M2Phil]

Great video! Those Steinmayer Krag chargers are slick! Viale makes everybody look grayer, balder, older, and fatter than they really are! Of course it doesn't help to be any (or all) of those things to begin with. The guys next to us (relays 3&4) were from MI, both shooting nice M1903's, one using a 1941 sniper with the scope removed. 96-1 slow prone shows what a Krag will do, in fine fashion, while 46-0 just shows there's truth in the phrase "Awful-hand", some days being "awfuller" than others! I shot a beautiful SMLE in Vintage two weeks ago and just stunk the place up with generally rotten shooting. The fumes are probably still lingering! We all probably walked right past one another several times, but there's always next year! I hope!

[psteinmayer]

The guy shooting the 1941 was Phil Randall... another friend of mine. He routinely crushes me in matches! I was surprised he didn't shoot his Krag because we had talked about him shooting it in the Roosevelt.

Don't you have a couple chargers Phil?

[CJCulpeper]

I tried to talk them into letting me shoot my Krag in the Springfield match once, with the logic that it was made by Springfield Arsenal and says Springfield on it. That didn't float. But if I can't shoot my Krag in their match, why should they be allowed to shot their 03a3s in a match for Krags and 03s. But, if they get real specific, where's that leave Culpepper and his 95, or Lee Navy rifles? Anyway, here's a video Paul's son took with my camera. Must be something wrong with the contrast, my hair don't look that white when I look in the mirror! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYuCFjCuxEw

So here we have a match that supposedly celebrates the early days of Camp Perry, that rotten Roosevelt (spit) and by extension the Spanish and Philippine Wars and where the main Army only guns of that era were to be allowed in the event. Yet they allowed the 1903A3? I can understand the Remington 1903 since it is the same platform as the SA and RIA rifles. What does the rule book say? Then I guess what was the intent of the guys who dreamed up the event?

As for Krags in the Springfield matches, perhaps the argument should go as the Springfield guns of 1894, 1895, 1896, 1898 and 1899 are referred to names of the original designers and should be included in the Springfield shoots since they were built at the Armory. If they are not allowed then the Springfield Match needs to be opened up to Mauser rifles of the era and renamed the Mauser Match to correctly label the shooting event with the name of the original designer of the gun.

Just thinkin...

added

Maybe we should stop using the name Krag and start using Springfield 1894 or 1899 Springfield when signing up for matches. Nothing is lost and everything can be gained. Even glaciers melt over time.

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm assuming the "problem" with the 1903A3 is the more efficient and better (longer sight radius) rear sight? That seems like a fair complaint to me - they can shoot in other matches.

Since this is a vintage match, supposedly offered solely for the purpose of having fun, some different rules could be added.

(1) More time for reloading in rapid fire?

(2) Limit entries to US-made military repeating rifles assembed during TR's lifetime? OR, issue a very specific list of weapons, including the Lee and 95 Winchester, and STICK TO IT.

Remember, I have zero experience in organized highpower competition.

[psteinmayer]

OUCH! Thanks Paul... now my head hurts! LOL

The logic is certainly flawed. Springfield Match, by rule, includes all rifles of the 1903 receiver design (1903, 1903A1 and 1903A3). However, by definition (using Bob's logic) should include all rifles manufactured at the Springfield armory, would now exclude Remington, RIA, and Smith Corona, and really should include Springfield Garand rifles too! Take it down the Culpepper path, to include rifles of Mauser design, now excludes Krags, but includes Mausers, Cacarnos, Arisakas, etc. Hmmmmmm

Originally, the Vintage Rifle match was intended to include U.S. arms that were not included in the Springfield Rifle class - the Krag and 1917. This was expanded (probably because someone complained loud enough) to include foreign bolt-action military rifles, i.e. Mauser, Nagant, Enfield, Arisaka, etc. Technically, each rifle should be judged of it's own accord. In other words: don't judge a Krag against a Mauser or Nagant. An Arisaka will never be able to compete against a 1917... and so on. In the Vintage Match, they are all classed together, and the waters get pretty murky!

No, I really think we should (IMHO) have the Roosevelt include A.) Krags only... or B.) Krags and 1903s only (to exclude later 1903s of WWII era, even though they technically are 1903s). It really is the only fair way to class the match - limited to rifles of Theodore Roosevelt/early National Rifle Match era only. The match was intended to celebrate Roosevelt as the father of the National Matches and the CMP... and as such, really should stick to the rifles that were allowed in that era!

By the way, in future matches, 1903A3s will be forbidden.

So let it be written... so let it be done!

[Dick Hosmer]

I tried to talk them into letting me shoot my Krag in the Springfield match once, with the logic that it was made by Springfield Arsenal and says Springfield on it. That didn't float. But if I can't shoot my Krag in their match, why should they be allowed to shot their 03a3s in a match for Krags and 03s. But, if they get real specific, where's that leave Culpepper and his 95, or Lee Navy rifles? Anyway, here's a video Paul's son took with my camera. Must be something wrong with the contrast, my hair don't look that white when I look in the mirror! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYuCFjCuxEw

Loved the video, Bob, but do have a question. There seems (to this TOTAL novice) to be a LOT of wasted motion. Having watched a bunch of the Scandinavian shooters shows that the Krag mechanics are handled much differently. Yes I DO realize that the goals are different, but it would seem that using their MO with our time limit and fixed shot count would mean a lot more time for aiming, waiting out a wind gust, etc. Not intending to be critical, just wondering?