Accurate shooting M1917

[fjruple]

Both are very good rifles. Even though the P14 and M1917 look the same both are quite different in design and execution. For some reason the P14 had major parts interchangeability issues between the three manufacturers. Not only where there three manufacturers both also produced two different variations, the MKI and the MKI*. The MKI* was a re-designed bolt which also affected the extractor and barrel. Not only that but each manufacturers incorporated changes that they felt they needed without advising the other two manufacturers. Winchester appears to be the biggest offender. Winchester also was very slow in incorporating the MK1* changes into the production. When the US Army Ordnance took over the P14 production for the M1917 they were not permitting the interchangeability issues to continue and draw up part drawings to ease the compatability issues. But Winchester jumped the gun and re-designed and produced the .30-06 M1917 without the US Army Ordnance drawings and specs which were not compatiable with the US Army drawings. Winchester produced about 10,000 rifles before the problem was discovered.

These are great rifles to fire. They are very strong and accurate with a good barrel. Unfortunately it was treated like a red-headed step-child that by circumstances the US Army was forced to adopt. Without the rifle the US would have been in a real fix in WWI.

--fjruple

[Merc]

I can do that. The T is stamped on the nose of the P-14 Stock Where the original W R or E were stamped. The P14's had tremendous parts interchangeability issues. I can only find one R marked part on it (cocking piece). The rest is all E. The very early Winchesters had some parts interchangeability issues. However, its my understanding they eventually got it figured out.

I'm beginning to wonder if the T stamp was typical to P14 stocks.

There was one Remington part that was in my Winchester that indicated a compatibility issue. The R stamped mag box that was in my '17 when I bought it was much smaller than the W stamped mag box that I bought to replace it. In fact, the R mag box would fall out of the stock when the trigger guard was removed. I had to press the larger W mag box into the stock and it stays put when the trigger guard is removed. There's probably no way the W mag box would fit inside a R stock.

[Merc]

Both are very good rifles. Even though the P14 and M1917 look the same both are quite different in design and execution. For some reason the P14 had major parts interchangeability issues between the three manufacturers. Not only where there three manufacturers both also produced two different variations, the MKI and the MKI*. The MKI* was a re-designed bolt which also affected the extractor and barrel. Not only that but each manufacturers incorporated changes that they felt they needed without advising the other two manufacturers. Winchester appears to be the biggest offender. Winchester also was very slow in incorporating the MK1* changes into the production. When the US Army Ordnance took over the P14 production for the M1917 they were not permitting the interchangeability issues to continue and draw up part drawings to ease the compatability issues. But Winchester jumped the gun and re-designed and produced the .30-06 M1917 without the US Army Ordnance drawings and specs which were not compatiable with the US Army drawings. Winchester produced about 10,000 rifles before the problem was discovered.

These are great rifles to fire. They are very strong and accurate with a good barrel. Unfortunately it was treated like a red-headed step-child that by circumstances the US Army was forced to adopt. Without the rifle the US would have been in a real fix in WWI.

--fjruple

I like the looks of the 17. It's a handsome well-built rifle that served us well. It's a shame that Winchester took so long to get its parts compatability act together which may have prevented the 17 from being the official US Army rifle for the next 20 years.

[p246]

I'm beginning to wonder if the T stamp was typical to P14 stocks.

There was one Remington part that was in my Winchester that indicated a compatibility issue. The R stamped mag box that was in my '17 when I bought it was much smaller than the W stamped mag box that I bought to replace it. In fact, the R mag box would fall out of the stock when the trigger guard was removed. I had to press the larger W mag box into the stock and it stays put when the trigger guard is removed. There's probably no way the W mag box would fit inside a R stock.

Hmm wonder if you had a Remington P14 mag box in your M1917 W?

[p246]

I believe the T stock is a M1917 stock. The P14s given the weiden repair were put in '1917 stocks if the original whale belly was bad. If the whale belly was good then the volley front sight was removed from it and the stock was reissued. It's my understanding there was not a supply of replacement P14 stocks so M1917 stocks had to be used. I'd like to find a P14 sniper either telescoped or diopter sight....probably never happen.

[p246]

Both are very good rifles. Even though the P14 and M1917 look the same both are quite different in design and execution. For some reason the P14 had major parts interchangeability issues between the three manufacturers. Not only where there three manufacturers both also produced two different variations, the MKI and the MKI*. The MKI* was a re-designed bolt which also affected the extractor and barrel. Not only that but each manufacturers incorporated changes that they felt they needed without advising the other two manufacturers. Winchester appears to be the biggest offender. Winchester also was very slow in incorporating the MK1* changes into the production. When the US Army Ordnance took over the P14 production for the M1917 they were not permitting the interchangeability issues to continue and draw up part drawings to ease the compatability issues. But Winchester jumped the gun and re-designed and produced the .30-06 M1917 without the US Army Ordnance drawings and specs which were not compatiable with the US Army drawings. Winchester produced about 10,000 rifles before the problem was discovered.

These are great rifles to fire. They are very strong and accurate with a good barrel. Unfortunately it was treated like a red-headed step-child that by circumstances the US Army was forced to adopt. Without the rifle the US would have been in a real fix in WWI.

--fjruple

Couldn't agree more. Without the M1917 a lot of doughboys would have been using British and French Rifles. Probably the Remington and Westinghouse Mosin Nagants to.

[bombdog]

i need to do more testing with mine yet... The barrel is a little pitted from about the muzzle down about 6"... She's still capable of holding 10 rounds in about 10"...
bombdog, out...

[fjruple]

p246--
The magazine boxes are not changeable in the P14. The Winchester P14 is uniquely different. The other problem I have noted on the P14 is that there are two types of magazine boxes. These changes are unassociated with the upgrade of the bolt in the MKI*. I have only found two parts dealers in the US who knows about the compatability issues between the different P14 manufacturers. Unlike the P14, the M1917 has just about all of the parts are interchangeable except for the first 10,000 Winchesters M1917s. This really was a lifesaver with the M1917 rebuild programs in WWII. The guns in a lot of cases were stripped completely down to the last screw during the rebuilds. There was a major fubar after WWI when many M1917s were rebuilt with new barrels and stored as a limited standard. A lot of M1917s were stored without any cosmoline in the bores and they rusted and had to be replaced when they were pulled from storage at the beginning of WWII.

--fjruple

[fjruple]

Merc--

The US Army was actually going to switch from the Springfield 1903 to the M1917. Production was not terminated until Early 1919 to provided a mass of spares parts and rifles. The US Army produced enough spare parts after the war to built an additional 200,000 rifles. What killed the M1917 was the National Matches in 1919. The M1917 rifle was only used instead of the beloved Springfield M1903. Rifle shooters are very traditional bunch and high disapproved of the M1917. Several of the complaints were no windage adjustments, too long of a rifle and unbalanced, and cocking on closing of the bolt. The M1917 also suffered from the "not invented here" syndrome. If the US Army Ordnance had worked to take care of these issues the M1917 could well have been the rifle used initially in WWII until the M1 rifle could be fully deployed to the troops.

--fjruple

[5MadFarmers]

Merc--

The US Army was actually going to switch from the Springfield 1903 to the M1917. Production was not terminated until Early 1919 to provided a mass of spares parts and rifles. The US Army produced enough spare parts after the war to built an additional 200,000 rifles. What killed the M1917 was the National Matches in 1919. The M1917 rifle was only used instead of the beloved Springfield M1903. Rifle shooters are very traditional bunch and high disapproved of the M1917. Several of the complaints were no windage adjustments, too long of a rifle and unbalanced, and cocking on closing of the bolt.

--fjruple

None of that is accurate and I'm not guessing.