The Free State of Jones

[PhillipM]

Art,

I messaged a teacher friend of mine with German ancestry your post and received back a slew of interesting facts.

The very first anti-slavery protests, even in New England, were led by German immigrants. German protestants were very much against the institution of slavery, it was an English (won't say British since Scots, Welsh, and Irlanders were victims of this in ancient history) were the main ones promoting slavery. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow I would devote my time to writing a history as to how the US Civil War was really a continuation of the War of Independence, the War of 1812, etc. The UK supported the Confederacy to try to overthrow the US Federal government, they weren't over that whole 1776 thing yet. As late as the 1900s the US War College (West Point) was war-gaming about the next "world war" which would be between the USA and the UK!

The civil war was a proxy war between the USA and the UK just as the Vietnam War was a proxy war between the USA and the USSR and China.

You're welcome. If I could only find funding to be a historian I think my book on this would be a great seller, I have not found anyone who has written something on this although MANY have cited that the UK both supported the CSA and that the US war colleges considered the UK to be the "enemy" up to and including during WW1 until the US sheeple were convinced to enter that war.

The UK was the only other "World Power" besides the USA up to and including 1916-1917. Given our history of hostility with the UK, it was only natural that the USA considered them to be the most natural adversary and wargamed, to use a modern term, against them appropriately.

[Art]

Phillip

When speaking of the 19th century British Empire one must remember that the single most powerful social pressure group in the U.K. was the anti-slavery movement. Any politician who bucked it after the 1820s did so at his political peril. The queen herself opposed slavery and as a young queen, in 1838, accepted a petition signed by 500,000 English women and 130,000 Scottish women stating their opposition to the institution and advocating its abolition world wide. When "Chinese" Gordon" abolished slavery in the Sudan by force (though his reforms did not survive his time as Governor General) he became a national hero. Because of that alone the Brits would never have intervened openly on the side of the Confederacy in the "War Between the States."

Now the Brits could indeed be positively nefarious. The Opium war which was fought purely to protect the Brit interest in the Opium trade in China is probably the most notorious example. So while the Brits had no problem with war profiteering through trade with the South anything beyond that was political suicide. If the Confederacy had prevailed I am certain, almost mathematically certain, that the Brits would have condemned them publically while continuing to trade with them. I mean a pound's a pound...right.

[dave]

The people of Arkansas were given a vote on weather to succeed or not, they voted not to. But the powers that be, all rich, land and slave owners, passed to do it anyway.

[blackhawknj]

West Virginia seceded from Virginia because the people of the Kanawha Valley refused to accept the vote of the General Assembly in Richmond to secede from the Union, there was considerable pro-Union sentiment in Eastern Tennessee. Like several of the German settlements in Texas refused to accept it.
There is a letter from Sherman to Stanton in which Sherman says "I am no friend of the Negro" but he acknowledges that the government's Emancipation policy has raised a whole host of allies for the Union .

[S.A. Boggs]

Phillip

When speaking of the 19th century British Empire one must remember that the single most powerful social pressure group in the U.K. was the anti-slavery movement. Any politician who bucked it after the 1820s did so at his political peril. The queen herself opposed slavery and as a young queen, in 1838, accepted a petition signed by 500,000 English women and 130,000 Scottish women stating their opposition to the institution and advocating its abolition world wide. When "Chinese" Gordon" abolished slavery in the Sudan by force (though his reforms did not survive his time as Governor General) he became a national hero. Because of that alone the Brits would never have intervened openly on the side of the Confederacy in the "War Between the States."

Now the Brits could indeed be positively nefarious. The Opium war which was fought purely to protect the Brit interest in the Opium trade in China is probably the most notorious example. So while the Brits had no problem with war profiteering through trade with the South anything beyond that was political suicide. If the Confederacy had prevailed I am certain, almost mathematically certain, that the Brits would have condemned them publically while continuing to trade with them. I mean a pound's a pound...right.

Too bad England forgot about their slaves in Erie.
Sam

[Art]

Too bad England forgot about their slaves in Erie.
Sam

Depends on what the meaning of the word "slave" is. There have been times when anyone tied to service including serfs and indentures came under the title. There is also a big difference between state slavery and chattel slavery. If you mean Irishmen sold as chattel slaves in the New World that is a hotly disputed topic.

[retread12345]

Recently saw it on NETFLIX. Had not heard about this occurrence at all. In all societies and regimes there are those who will refuse to go along with the party line and buck.
Nazis , commies, dictatorships and republics. I would urge any one to see it.

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As always, follow the money