Winchester m12 trench on gun broker

[Big Larry]

It does not even look like the correct bomb, so yes the markings are strange. But the overall manufacture and serial number of the gun indicate it is not fake. Re-parked guns are smooth, because they were polished out like commercial guns when made. This gun is "unfinished", they never polished out the machining marks.

It does appear that the proofs are parked over too. I had one years ago and the proofs were very shiny. I still maintain the point of the punch mark. This gun has been back to Winchester for whatever. Big Larry

[Keydet92]

I do not deny that this shotgun is what it is portrayed to be. As I said Winchesters are not my line of collecting. I'm only offering observations on something that looks very different from the standard. I did some searching on ordnance bomb styles and found one that is close to the example (from an Oneida Limited bayonet) for comparison. See attached, parkerized gun in upper left, the two vertical flames on the right and the fat flame second from the left stand out.
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[scosgt]

I am confounded by the markings too, because the gun is absolutely NOT fake.

[scosgt]

It does appear that the proofs are parked over too. I had one years ago and the proofs were very shiny. I still maintain the point of the punch mark. This gun has been back to Winchester for whatever. Big Larry

Larry
That punch mark on a WWI 97 with WWII features is taken to mean a factory refurbish. Those guns are always blued. I know what you are referring to with the punch mark, but I don't think that is what it means in this case. In fact, I don't know of any re-parking by Winchester, but maybe you have some reference to this. And in any case, it is not refinished, unless the receiver was also re-hardened, because the thumb print indicates hardened areas, and any re-do of the finish destroys that.

[Keydet92]

Another theory. I have a Model 12 riot gun from the same period (1037014) that doesn't have US martial markings. Could this trench gun have been extra production that was never marked and accepted by the War Dept? Then at some later date an enterprising collector doctored it with US markings and possibly added the heat shield as it looks to have a lot less wear than the shotgun it's on.

[Big Larry]

I would hazard a guess that about 99% of all trenchguns for sale have something wrong with them and have been helped along the way. These guns are subject to fakery, and many are pieces and parts. A 100% gun is a true find these days. I got real lucky with my recent purchase as I bought it from a friend who bought it from my BIL a few years back for $2,500.I knew the pedigree of this M97. No excuse gun in a good 98%+ condition. I don't even collect these anymore, but I know a deal when I see one. Ren waxed and put away in my safe. Big Larry

[Big Larry]

Larry
That punch mark on a WWI 97 with WWII features is taken to mean a factory refurbish. Those guns are always blued. I know what you are referring to with the punch mark, but I don't think that is what it means in this case. In fact, I don't know of any re-parking by Winchester, but maybe you have some reference to this. And in any case, it is not refinished, unless the receiver was also re-hardened, because the thumb print indicates hardened areas, and any re-do of the finish destroys that.

The punch mark is not necessarily there as a refinish. Just means that Winchester received the shotgun back at the factory for some work. What work? Who knows. Maybe a handguard replacement.
I have seen many WW2 Winchester M75 22 target rifles with these punchmarks that still had their original blue. Most WW2 M75's you see are parkerized and have been through some kind of arsenal rework. I don't think Winchester ever parked any M75's. Parked M12's are very scarce too and are faked. Big Larry

[Tom Doniphon]

Maybe the gun had to be re-proofed and that is what the punch mark designates.

[scosgt]

Another theory. I have a Model 12 riot gun from the same period (1037014) that doesn't have US martial markings. Could this trench gun have been extra production that was never marked and accepted by the War Dept? Then at some later date an enterprising collector doctored it with US markings and possibly added the heat shield as it looks to have a lot less wear than the shotgun it's on.

Ding Ding Ding I think we may have a winner. It sure looks like someone applied the receiver markings outside the factory. On what has to be the real deal.

[ww2imposter]

WOW, I wouldn't touch this gun for anything more than parts. The "US" is badly off center and is obviously hand applied, and the "S" is upside down. The periods after each letter were applied with different pressures. The ordnance bomb is a cheap fake. Can't tell for certain because of the picture size, but I also think the "G" in the GHD is also wrong. This is a M12 riot gun that has been humped and someone is going to get $crewd hard. Caveat emptor. My 2cents.