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Thread: Buying a M1903

  1. #61
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    Art,

    You would have liked this one. How many all-Remington non-rebuilds are out there? Their asking price was $900. We settled at $775.

    I think it's probably the nicest example of a 03-A3 I've seen and I'm very happy with it. The price included a repro Nobuckle sling and an oiler/cleaning kit which together would have cost me $50 or more if I'd purchased them separately.

    Merc

    8/18 update (a few items added):

    I stand corrected.

    My recently purchased Remington 03-A3 made in June, 1943 is a rebuild, a really well-done rebuild with several new parts, but still a rebuild. The absence of an arsenal rebuild cartouche (that I'm used to seeing on older rebuilt rifles) was apparently common on 03-A3s. The RA (Remington Arms) cartouche (that's missing on mine) is usually stamped on the stock near the Ordnance and Atwood's inspection cartouches. It's a manufacturer's mark, not an arsenal rebuild cartouche. Raritan Arsenal's rebuild cartouche is also "RA" witch adds to the confusion (see m1903.com).

    Just as in the arsenal rebuilding of the M1917s, apparently no attention was ever paid to keeping Smith-Corona and Remington parts separated. Remington stamped "R" on their parts and Smith-Corona left everything blank.

    My 03-A3 does have a very uniform and incredibally well preserved gray Parkerized finish that suggests the rifle went directly into storage at the arsenal after rebuilding. Original factory finished components were usually a variety of different colors and finish types according to Rick the Librarian.

    Looking a little deeper:

    The stock has recoil screws instead of recoil pins that should have been on an original mid-1943 rifle stock, so it's a replacement stock that was made later, possibly a new one at the time of rebuilding (shortly after the war?) since there's so few blemishes or wear marks. There's no "RA" (Remington Arms) cartouche that suggests it's a Smith-Corona stock.

    The butt plate has some minor dings and is not new. It has a coarse cross-hatch pattern that indicates it was made by Smith-Corona. Remington butt plates have a finer cross-hatch pattern. You can see a side-by-side comparison on M1903.com. There is no manufacturer's mark.

    Instead of an "R", the bolt is stamped "BF 19" at the base of the handle. The bolt body appears new. BFs are described on other forums as a "war time replacement" bolts although given the excellent, almost unused overall condition of the barrel/receiver, you'd wonder why they found it necessary to replace the bolt - which leads to the question: did Remington ever use BF bolts during the original assembly? (The answer is NO!). The "BF" stands for Bonney Forge and, according to m1903.com, the "19" is one of a series of numbers described as "steel lot codes" and may be a way to trace heat treatment and alloy formula data. According to available info, Bonney Forge supplied the forgings to Springfield who machined the bolts. (You have to wonder why the bolts weren't stamped BF-SA, SA or just S. Did Remington make both the forging and the finished bolt?) I disassembled the bolt in order to inspect the firing mechanism. It looked new and without visible wear or corrosion but showed no evidence of any lubrication.

    The stacking swivel and the lower sling swivel base are both stamped with an "R" but the upper sling swivel is blank and is Smith Corona mfd.

    I won't disassemble the rifle (as I did with my M1917 Winchester) to look for and evaluate the condition of original and non-Remington parts. It's fine the way it is and it's doubtful that I could ever find individual Remington parts out there with the exact same Parkerized finish. I replaced many of the non-Winchester M1917 parts with originals that were mostly inexpensive NOS, for a better fit, finish and function which doesn't appear necessary on the 03-A3. Parts compatibility issues that haunted the M1917 don't seem to be a problem with the 03-A3.

    The mechanics are excellent. It head spaces very well on a .30-06 field gauge, a ME gauge shows zero muzzle wear and throat erosion is minimal. It's no surprise that the rifle is a very accurate shooter at 100 yards.

    Factory originals are rare and sell for $1500 or more - see the "Pristine 03-A3" that's currently on the WTS thread.

    It's still a fantastic looking relic rifle and I feel fortunate to have found one in this condition. See the pics below.

    There you have it - a list of things to look for when examining a 03-A3 that you're considering.

    Merc
    Last edited by Merc; 08-20-2016 at 11:38. Reason: Updating previous post.

  2. #62
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  3. #63
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    A few more.

    100_3775.jpg100_3777.jpg100_3779.jpg100_3780.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Merc; 08-11-2016 at 05:30.

  4. #64
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    Last edited by Merc; 08-10-2016 at 04:34.

  5. #65
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    See below.
    Last edited by Merc; 08-10-2016 at 08:13. Reason: Pics didn't load properly.

  6. #66
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    Last edited by Merc; 08-10-2016 at 08:11.

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    Nice piece.

    PD

  8. #68
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    Thanks Pete. It's a nice rifle.

    Merc

  9. #69

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    Comments to all of the above.

    "There are few 1903's in Fla" Well, with 2 miles of me is an excellent condition low sn 1903, that I looked at, but didn't want to pay the asking price for a 'wall hanger'.

    Within a coupla months of seeing that 1903, I walked into a pawn shop to pick up some .308 and maybe some 9mm, and just happened to ask if they had an '03. *RELATIVELY* cheaply, I got a mixmaster 1903 with a Springfield Nov 1918 receiver, and an RIA 1918 (Nov) barrel. With a replacement scant stock and some suspicious pipe wrench style gouges on the barrel up near the receiver.

    Now the 1903a3 that I got a coupla years back, I picked that up thru oldguns.net. Probably paid more than it was worth, but between buying it, and shipping cross country to my FFL, it was aroun low $900's.

    Referenced to arsenal/contractor rebuilds after WW2. Everything I've read, points to the rebuild facility, getting in crates of various rifles, and running 1 or more lines for each type. Total strip down to basic component parts, and they were then tossed into bins, and then inspected and/or gauged to meet rebuild specifications, if they didn't, into the scrap bin. Once the got a stockpile of parts enough to justify a assembly line, the parts were pulled and the basic sub assemblies were assembled and probably Q&A'd and stored. Then the mating of barrel to action, and final chamber reaming, and assembly to a full rifle, and test fired, and accepted or rejected. Accepted rifles, were cleaned, then packages with appropriate accessories and manuals into long term storage crates/containers, and shipped out to storage arsenals.
    M-2
    As an aside, in Hater's book of the Garand, he talks about post war rebuild programs, and there are some nice pic of the 'canned' M-1 Garands.

    The Springfield Armory Museum up in Springfield,Mass *used* to have a sliced open can and a still sealed one on display, iirc. mmmm imagine what a still sealed 'spam can' of Garands would go for at auction.

    Just my $0.50 worth of comments (inflation), I may be wrong about the rebuild program flow, but the basic idea is. If the part meant rebuild specifications, it was put into a bin, on rebuild line, the first part grabbed, was used.

    RHB

  10. #70
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    Looking at an example of the final product, and adding the Parkerizing process, I would say that's probably how it went. They did things in the most expedient manner possible with the resources they had. It's unfortunate that there were two OEMs that made 03-A3s resulting in a fine rifle with mixed parts. They probably didn't think there would be any interest in the old rifles 70 years later.

    Merc

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