Need Info On Remington

[Marty T.]

I think it may be an issue of just wanting to get it out. He has a small shop in his garage and is planning on not doing any more walkin customer work. Just doing "order" items. Had it originally priced at $600, then $550, then $500, and when I contacted him with questions, it was $475 out the door. So probably no real "issues" other than needing it gone so he has no problem with people showing up at the shop.
Have some go and no/go gauges, will take them with me and check headspace, bore, and see if I can identify who made what parts.
Thanks all.

[Merc]

Try a field gauge if the bolt closes on a no-go gauge.

Merc

[JB White]

JB,

Check out page no.16 in the C. S. Ferris book "United States Rifle Model Of 1917" where he goes into great detail about the "Winchester Problem" and the circle star stamp.

Merc

It's been quite a while since I read it so I looked back again. Skimming through I can see where he doesn't quite confirm the officers letters and Winchesters actions etc. and leaves it just a tad open ended. Thanks for the invite to go back though. I'll probably read the book again but more slowly this time

Might like to add there is a difference in regard to the marking. The M1917 wears it on the left rail whereas the P14 wears it on the receiver ring.

+1 on the Field Gauge. The Go and No Go are used when breeching up a barrel within specs. Specs which take into consideration wear and tear along with stretch. The Field gauge determines whether or not a used rifle is still within safe parameters.

[Merc]

The government's ban on sending pre-1918 M1917s to the war made it possible that a few hundred thousand rifles manufactured by all three OEMs in 1917 were lightly used for training purposes in the U S during the war and placed in storage after the war since the M1903 remained the standard army rifle. It's reasonable to expect that these early rifles are going to be in better condition than those that were made in 1918 that most likely saw war-time service. This isn't something that's mentioned much but should be considered when shopping around for a M1917. It helps to be aware of the rifle's history and to know what to do when you find one.

[Merc]

IditarodJoe,

You're exactly correct. No rifles made in 1917 were sent to Europe, according to Ferris' book.

I also have an early Winchester that was made in November, 1917 and it's also in great shape. I shot it for the first time recently with the ladder sight bottomed at the lowest setting at a 50 yard target. It was right on target and did much better than I expected.

I learned much about W '17s after I bought it and I suspect the parts interchangeability problem was probably why early Ws are in so much better condition than later Es and Rs. They weren't used much. Hearing about the condition of your early W more or less confirms my uneducated guess.

A good question might be: what specifically was the parts interchangeability problem that we hear so much about? My W had more parts from E and R than W including the most important item - E bolt that's still in it. I've changes most of the parts back over to W except the bolt. Does anyone know? I might post this question on a separate thread and see what others think.

Merc

[Marty T.]

Looked it over tonight. Has Rem rec. and barrel, E bolt, W stock, not able to check internals. Has rebuild stamp on stock, so mixed parts are a given. Said he would take $450 bottom dollar. Forgot my gauges for go, no/go, but he has been shooting it so apparently it functions and bullet test on muzzle was good.
No rust or pitting anywhere and wood is solid. What say you all? Worth it?

[Merc]

I'd say $450 is a bargain for a shootable '17. They were durable battle rifles with a very robust action. Lots of Remington parts seem to be out there if you need them. It must have had good basics if they thought enough of it to do an armory rebuild. It probably only saw a few months of war-time action if it was made in 7/18. The war ended 4 months later.

It's interesting that it wound up with a Winchester stock. They are in demand these days and yours could be worth a few hundred dollars alone if it's in good shape.

If you're comfortable, then I say go for it and enjoy yourself. Let us know how it shoots.

Merc

[IditarodJoe]

I agree with Merc. Barring any as yet unmentioned defect, $450 sounds like an excellent price and the rifle in question sounds like a good "representative example".

For years, I've heard stories about WWI "cleaning parties" where soldiers would strip their rifles and toss all of the smaller parts into a communal pot of solvent. As the story goes, after cleaning the parts they'd reassemble their rifles without regard to which part came from which rifle. No idea how true this is, but in my experience truly original Model of 1917 rifles are extremely rare. So much so, that I would automatically consider any 100% correct 1917 to be the product of some collector's "restoration" project unless there were other really compelling evidence to the contrary.

As Marty T implied, a rifle with a rebuild stamp will invariably have a mixture of manufacturers' parts. My 1917 has two rebuild stamps: RA-P (Raritan Arsenal) and 3GM-K. Last I knew, although the 3GM-K stamp is common, nobody as yet knows its source. Has any progress been made on this front?

[Merc]

Iditarod Joe,

I Googled "3GM-K" and found it mentioned on several forums. One particular forum contributor says it was a rebuild mark of the Light Division of General Motors.

Go to: http://myplace.frontier.com/~aleccorapinski/id9.html That sight is for the M1 and has a number of marks listed and says the 3GM-K mark has a connection to WW2.

Merc

[IditarodJoe]

Thanks Merc.

The link you posted doesn't work for me, but I've heard speculation in the past that the GM might stand for General Motors. That's an easy leap considering the auto industry's involvement with the military during and after WW2, but I haven't heard of any credible confirmation. Keep in mind that there are still collectors out there who believe 1903A3 bolts marked "CC" were made by Chrysler Corporation although that's been disproved. Maybe 3GM-K is destined to remain one of life's great mysteries.