Need Info On Remington

[Marty T.]

Have opportunity to buy a Remington M1917 30-06 in 424xxx s/n range with 7-18 Remington barrel. All I have is pics, have not held in my hands so I don't know any particulars other than rifle looks in good condition and is in military configuration as far as stock and parts go. Price is $475 but I'm finding out if that is out the door or if tax and background is included. Question is, is that a good price or should I try to get him down some more? Thanks.
Marty

[tmark]

Assuming the muzzle wear is between 0 and 3 at the most and the throat erosion is within specs, I think that is a fair price. Chances are that rifle has a mix of R, E, and/or W parts.

Have the seller put the pointed end of a bullet into the muzzle. If the muzzle swallows the bullet, the muzzle is worn out. The bullet should stop in the muzzle just at the point where the curved part of the bullet meets the "straight" part of the bullet.

[Merc]

I'd say $475 is a pretty good price. Hopefully you'll be able to see it beforehand. Just be aware that most M1917s dated after January, 1918 probably saw service in Europe and should be inspected for excessive barrel and head space wear.

Because of parts interchangeability issues that all three OEMs had early, a lot of M1917s that were made in 1917 never made it overseas. This was particularly true with Winchesters that were stamped with a star in a circle on the receiver that indicated they would stay in the U S. Nothing is wrong with the early Winchesters. In fact, they often command higher prices.

If you're planning to shoot it, I'd bring a bore light, a .30-06 bullet to check the muzzle and a head space field gauge along assuming you'll be able to see it in person. Look on the Internet for instructions on how to disassemble the bolt to check head space or have a gunsmith check head space prior to the purchase. Head space field gauges can be acquired at Brownells.

Inspect for a damaged or repaired stock and missing parts. Look for corrosion on external parts and the bolt body surface. Don't expect all parts to be made by Remington because they generally used whatever was available when service was required. Eddystone and Remington parts seem to be more common than Winchester. I would at least want the stock and bolt to be Remington. You can find the rest of the parts on eBay or from parts dealers if you want to make it parts correct.

There's a book by C.S. Ferris titled "United States Rifle Model of 1917" that tells the story of this rifle. Amazon sells them for around $20 plus shipping.

Merc

[kcw]

Have opportunity to buy a Remington M1917 30-06 in 424xxx s/n range with 7-18 Remington barrel. All I have is pics, have not held in my hands so I don't know any particulars other than rifle looks in good condition and is in military configuration as far as stock and parts go. Price is $475 but I'm finding out if that is out the door or if tax and background is included. Question is, is that a good price or should I try to get him down some more? Thanks.
Marty

Understand that even with its original barrel, the rifle could still be a WWII refurbished unit; in which case the barreled receiver would likely have been sand blasted, black parked and the piece refitted with a completely random selection of used, new and NOS parts. Not that a WWII refurbished rifle is a bad thing, but it won't be a WWI factory original if that's what you're looking for.

[Marty T.]

No, just looking for a representative example. Thanks for all advice and info. Will be going to look at it Mon. or Wed. and see exactly what it is and do some checking on what's what. Will use info from here to make decision. Just not sure of the value of these and didn't want to overpay for what I was getting if I decide to go for it. Any more advice will be appreciated.

[dave]

Here in MI at gun shows any 1917 is asking price of 700-800 bucks.

[JB White]

Regarding the star in a circle. I have heard that story about "not for overseas" before, but that is in contradiction to that same star also appearing on the earlier Pattern 1914. That star is said to be a standard Winchester marking indicating the improved locking lug.

[Merc]

The high end in today's market for a M1917 that most collectors would be willing to pay is probably somewhere around $1200 for one in pristine parts correct condition inside and out.

I searched a lot of gun shows in western PA over the past year and saw many '17s that were in average used war-time condition with mixed parts. Most were being offered in the $500 to $700 price range. Nearly all had some condition issues with dark corroded bores being the most common.

The price of the '17 you're considering might be somewhat below average which means there could be condition issues to consider and is the reason I'm suggesting that you come prepared to identify them if they exist.

I paid $29 plus shipping costs for a Clymer .30-06 Sprg head space field gauge at Brownells.

Good luck and let us know how you do.

Merc

[Merc]

JB,

Check out page no.16 in the C. S. Ferris book "United States Rifle Model Of 1917" where he goes into great detail about the "Winchester Problem" and the circle star stamp.

Merc

[IditarodJoe]

Because of parts interchangeability issues that all three OEMs had early, a lot of M1917s that were made in 1917 never made it overseas. This was particularly true with Winchesters that were stamped with a star in a circle on the receiver that indicated they would stay in the U S. Nothing is wrong with the early Winchesters. In fact, they often command higher prices.

I would "mostly" agree with this statement. For reasons unknown, star marking continued at Winchester until sometime between January 17 and 23, 1918 and then ended. No rifles from any of the three manufacturers were shipped to Europe until some time after the March 7, 1918 interchangeability test at Eddystone established that rifles made at all three factories after January 1, 1918 demonstrated satisfactory interchangeability. A further clarification, issued by order of the Secretary of War and dated June 24, 1918, specifically stated that all Winchester rifles having 1918 barrel dates could be sent overseas. I read that to mean that star marked Winchesters having 1-18 barrels could go to war.

That said, my star marked Winchester, made in mid-January 1918 and bearing a 1-18 barrel, is in such beautiful condition that, if it did ever go to Europe, I think it must have been on the "tourist plan".