??? about long range 308 loads

[Mickey Christian]

Looking for suggestions for:
147 gr fmj with an eye towards
accuracy and velocity near the top end.
Thanks for any help offered.
Mickey

[m1ashooter]

I just load to the top of the specs and raise my rear sight.

[Litt'le Lee]

you need Sierra 155 Palma and a lot of Varget-heavy is better than lighter on long range

[shoot308]

No such thing as a 147 and top end accuracy. Get some 155s or 175s and save yourself the heartache.

[raymeketa]

500 - 600 is mid range. 700 - 1000 is long range. Are you expecting to shoot 700 - 1000 yards with the 147 gr FMJ bullet?

[Sunray]

Any 147 grain fmj is likely a pulled milsurp bullet. Not made for great accuracy at any distance. Mind you, what you consider to be long range may be different than what the NRA etc call it. Like ray says, 700 plus is long range, but the bull is 24" diameter too. The DCRA(Dominion of Canada Rifle Association. Same idea as the NRA) shot regular NATO ball from those distances. So it's not impossible.
However, you have to work up the load for your rifle. What work well out of my semi'd Winchester M-14(it likes 150s with IMR3031. Never bothered with a match bullet as the rifle isn't up to 'em.) will not necessarily shoot well out of whatever you have. Any of the standard .308/7.62 powders will do. IMR or H 4895, IMR4064, Varget, etc.

[Cosine26]

I must agree with those who indicate that the 147 gr M80 bullet is not noted for accuracy. it is a lot better than the M59 bullet (a real pig) that it superseded. When the 7.62mm M80 ball was introduced, I had access to several different lots of M80 ammo by several manufacturers, i.e. WRA, LC, And TW. I tested the M80 round in several M70 heavy barreled target rifles with both the 10 inch twist and the 12 inch twist and only found one lot TW 57 that was OK for 200 yard practice and marginal for 300 yard practice
I then broke down some of the ammo and sorted the bullets by weight and appearance. I loaded them to various velocities and fired them in both 7.62 chambered rifles and 30-06 chambered rifles with the two twists. My test considered 3- ten shot groups from the 300 yard bench rest with each rifle and each load. Accuracy was not significantly improved.
I believe that the bearing surface is inadequate for proper seating of the bullet during reloading and is not long enough for good barrel contact when fired. I have no definitive proof of this, just my supposition.
I do not know what you mean by long range. I do not feel that satisfactory results would be obtained at 500 or 600 yards. I did not test this bullet at ranges longer than 300 yards. I believe that the ballistic coefficient would be so low that at the fastest initial velocity you could load it, you would transit the barrier at the speed of sound and accuracy would suffer further. I believe that the M80 round was supposed to have an IV of ~2800 fps and that the bullet was designed for a 12 inch twist barrel (a la M14). If the velocity is increased beyond the design limits, the rotational velocity may cause the bullet to disintegrate in midair. I had this happen to me when trying to use some 180 grain 30 caliber Remington Palm bullets in a 300 H&H. I contacted Remington and they informed me that this particular bullet was not designed for magnum velocities.
FWIW

[raymeketa]

Trying not to hijack Mickey's thread -

Cosine, I think you mis-spoke regarding the M80 vs the M59. The M59 came first (1954) and was replaced by the M80 in 1959.

I have heard all the stories about the bearing surface of the M80 bullet so I did some tests on my own to see if it really was fact. It's hard to measure bearing surface without having access to the right tools, but I rigged up some of my own and measured several different bullets including a couple of highly accurate Match bullets. What I found was that there was not a lot of difference. In fact, the M80 had a longer bearing surface than one of the premier Match bullets that is often used as a standard.

What did it prove? Nothing, in my opinion, except to not accept anything without checking it for yourself.

But I will agree that the M80 bullets, and their clones, are not very good short range bullets, much less mid and long range.

Ray

[Cosine26]

Hi Ray,
According to my dictionary "supersede" means to replace. The M59 came first then was superseded by the M80.
FWIW

[raymeketa]

Cosine

Of course you are right. The word I was thinking of was precede. English was never one of my strong points.

Ray