Air Corps 1903 rifle

[Fred]

Take a look at the latest edition of Flaydermans. I wouldn't regard it as the rarest variant however.

[Dick Hosmer]

If this an original air service 1903, wouldn't it be the rarest of 1903 variants? What cartouches should it have????? What would be a realistic value.

No, it would certainly not be the rarest 1903. With a production of 910 rifles, and little if any record of documented use, there have to be some around, even though they were apparently ordered to be converted into normal 1903s after the war, which should have taken no more than five minutes each by a trained armorer, in shop with the proper tools and parts at hand.

This item has begun to intrigue me, and I plan on having a lot more input. I will NOT be bidding on it - I do not collect 1903s, and, since this is no longer a "sleeper", and I'm now on a very tight fixed income, there will be no attempt by me to obtain it for trade purposes. Further input will be limited as to why I think it is real, or not real - and I have not yet made up my mind. My 1865-1915 SA collection includes a significant number of arms made in quantities of 1000 or less, so, while definitely NOT an '03 "expert", at all, am not unfamiliar with limited production Springfields.

Full disclosure right up front: I've never handled, or even seen, an Air Service Rifle, real or faked. My written information - right or wrong - comes solely from the works of Brophy and Canfield. I do not have Campbell's or Hatcher's books, so, I may well make some newbie mistakes as this progresses. If I do, please point them out to me. All future comments are "IMHO". Game on.

At the very minimum, I would ask that the seller provide pictures of the following areas:

(1) More angles of the front of the stock and handguard (but he has already shown the toe of the stock without sling swivel mortise - which is HUGE, and probably makes the stock correct all by itself.
(2) More angles of the rear sight.
(3) Barrel stamping
(4) Several views of magazine opening
(5) Stock cartouche(s)

[Fred]

Yea, what Dick said!

[Fred]

There was a run of Nine Sporter 1903's that were the last made at Springfield Armory and that went to the Justice Department (FBI) in 1928 or 1929. I know of a fellow who has Two of them that have been offered to me for $2,000.00 each. I think that any of That run must be pretty rare.

[Promo]

Why would someone list a M1903 Sporter which appears to be an AS rifle, but puts a reserve of $9,000 on it because some people told him how rare this rifle is, and still doesn't update the description? Well, because the description then is something binding, and by now he still can claim he only sold a Sporter.
Compare the pictures with original Air Service rifles. The front end has a much different angle. And someone very knowledgeable told me to look at the finish, what I did. The originals sold by James D. Julia, aswell as those in Springfield Armory collection have a blued finish - and both also have inspector markings. This rifle does not.

For the records: what I was able to read on the internet, a June 19, 1925 memorandum said that 139 rifles were converted to service rifle configuration. Subtracting this from the 910, there should be 771 rifles of those still around.

[Fred]

Thanks For sharing that information Georg!

[Dick Hosmer]

IIRC, there are four AS rifles at SA, one [J.F.C.], one [W.E.S.], and two either unmarked or the data was not recorded - but there does not seem to be a strong (pun intended) pattern. As to the finish, I'm not qualified to say. As to the stock profile, I'd bet that the tips were hand-shaped against a sanding belt, leading to inevitable small differences.

FWIW, the GB rifle is less than 250 numbers from one of the ones at SA.

Had no idea his reserve is that high - don't think we have to worry about it selling too soon!

[Promo]

Sorry to correct you Dick, but you're not right. There were very clear drawings with exact radius dimensions, how the stock tip should look like. For security reasons only this specific part - see the attachement. And with a total of more than 900 guns, I'm pretty sure they were professionally made and not each one handcrafted.

[Dick Hosmer]

NO problem, whatsoever - you will recall I asked for such candor, right up front. That's how we learn. Thank you very much.

Assuming, since the profile in his photo does not match the drawing (edge too sharp) that it may not be correct, how do we account for the stock not having a sling swivel?

[Promo]

Well, take a M1903 stock, some walnut blanks and a good carpenter .. not that of a hard job, pictures are available, and dimension can be taken from any M1903 straight gripped stock.