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  1. #1
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    Aug 2009
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    Texas native exiled to Oz for past indescretions to numerous to mention.
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    Default Competitive use of M1903

    Can anyone tell me what year the M1903 was removed from the list of approved Service Rifles by DCM and/or NRA?

    Thanks.....
    "There it is"
    LOAD AND BE READY!

  2. Default

    Circa 1975 I just got into shooting and remember the outrage

  3. #3
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    Default

    I can only imagine the fuss that must have caused. However, the very nature of the competition dictates that it must evolve. Currenty there is much hand wringing going on because the CMP has approved the use of optics on service rifle EIC matches. Nobody is sure if this will result in a fundamental change in competition.

    It is interesting (to me at least) that the 1903's were dissapproved, yet the M1 Garand is still allowed. Part of me believes that becase the 1903 is reasonably easy to make accurate for minimal money and effort, they had to kill it to ensure that competitors would use current equipment. (this is before folks figured out how to really make the AR15 shoot well, which ultimately would have killed it anyway). Since the AR platform easily outshoots either the M1 or M14, there has been no real need to push the issue and they have been allowed to linger as nostalgia.

  4. Default

    I believe that the M1903 became obsolete with the introduction of the M1 rifle. With the resumption of "Leg Matches" in 1946 or 1947, the M1 was required in accordance with Army Regulation 920-30. Initially the M1 had to be in 30-06 caliber and it was not until later that the 7.62 NATO round was authorized. When EIC was reopened to civilians, circa 1946, , a civilian shooter could draw an M1 from the army or use an M1 issued to his DCM affiliated club. . Until about 1967 only ammunition issued at the firing line could be used. There is an excellent article in a 1946 AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine by Harlon Carter of his experiences as a civilian in early EIC competition.
    The original purpose of the EIC matches was to educate the civilian population in the care and use of the "Service Rifle" which was designated as the M1903 pre-WWII and the M1 post war. At one time the rules were so strict, that a special directive had to be issued that allowed M1903's that had been drilled and tapped for the Lyman 48 to be used, even if the Lyman 48 were to be removed.
    It was not until several years after the adoption of the M1 that the civiliian shooter was able to purchase an M1. He had to rely on using the M1 that had been issued to his DCM affiliated club. The October 1955 issue of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine carries the initial offering though the NM M1 was available for sale at the 1954 National Matches.
    The M1903 is still authorized for competition in NRA rifle matches as a "MATCH" rifle though it is very non competitive.
    FWIW
    Last edited by Cosine26; 11-06-2015 at 09:14.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Texas native exiled to Oz for past indescretions to numerous to mention.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SW28fan View Post
    Circa 1975 I just got into shooting and remember the outrage
    Thank you, if correct that's later than I'd have guessed.

    Cosine mentions the Harlon Carter article from 1946. Gen. Julian Hatcher quotes from that article extensively in Hatcher's Book of the Garand, as well as detailing his own experience as a Krag shooter when the M1903 was adopted and how the M1903 was eventually accepted. Hatcher also quotes John George, author of Shots Fired In Anger who was an experienced M1903 competitor pre-WWII about the Garand transition as well as John C. Garand about how to make the M1 competitive against the M1903. If anyone has not read Hatcher's book on the M1, it makes darn interesting reading on several levels.

    As Allen Humphrey noted, there is now much howling about the proposed rule changes and that made me curious about when the M1903 was removed from the list of allowable service rifles.

    Thank you all for your input.
    "There it is"
    LOAD AND BE READY!

  6. Default

    Service Rifle

    Let me elaborate on my previous answer.
    FIRST: The NRA never had any decision making authority in defining a "service" rifle. That was the responsibility of the Army Ordnance department. It was defined in AR 920-30 and FM23-5 (US Rifle caliber 30M1). When the Italian manufactured M1's became available, they were barred from Leg matches for the requirement was "Service Rifle: U. S. Caliber .30 M1 as issued by the Ordnance Corps..." . When the 7.62/308 round became popular, some competitors covered their M1's to that caliber, but would be disqualified if caught. As I stated originally, the M1 became the service rife in post war shooting in 1946. The 1940 National Matches were the last fired with the M1903 as the service rifle. Not enough M1's had been produce to require the use of the M1.
    SECOND: The "leg", EIC, Distinguished matches were conducted by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice (NBPRP). In the pre war years and the early post war years, there was a fairly close relationship between the NBPRP and the NRA so the NRA , as a courtesy included the description of the "service" rifle in the NRA rule book. The army would furnish M72 MATCH ammo for issue at the firing line and this was the only ammo that was authorized. One was issued the required number of rounds when in place on the firing line. After the army quit supporting the National Matches (in 1967) the shooters were left to their own resources. At one time this got so bad that the military teams were required to police their brass and turn it in. Prior to this the military just left the cases and they were up for grabs by the civilian shooter.
    THIRD: There was no CMP until the NBPRP was disestablished. The CMP presently conducts and defines the rules for the EIC matches. I have not fired in a leg match in many years so I am not on all of the regulations as they exist today. The NRA rule book carried the 'service rifle" definition for many years and still may. There are three defined 'service rifles" in my latest rule book ((1999), the M1, the M14, and the M16 series. Rule 3.1.3 Service Rifle- Any rifle or modified rifle not covered by NRA rules 3.1, 3.1.1, or 3.1.2, but permitted by CMP rules are considered service rifles in NRA competition.
    FORTH: There are so many versions of the M16 series rifles in use by the service today, and modified by CMP rules that it is probably difficult to define a "service rifle". Many of the so called "service rifles" allowed in matches today are a far cry from the standard "service rifle".
    Someone who shoots "service rife" today can probably provide a good definition. I can remember that later rules allowed the "lugging" of the M1 and M14 receivers , and I believe that today one can have a heavy barrel, a rifle with a modified twist rate and many other modifications.
    Not having fired in an EIC match in many years I do not know that the M1 is still eligible as a 'service rifle". Originally the M14 in the NM version was supposed to replace the M1 about 1965. The "fly in the ointment" was the definition by the ATF or its predecessor that "once a machine gun, always a machine gun." At one time the army built several M14 prototypes that were never built as having the full auto capability to get around this rule. It was decided that such a rifle would never be an "item of issue" so the project was dropped. .
    FWIW

  7. #7
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    Aug 2009
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    Friendswood, Texas
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    Default

    Cosine is correct. The 1903 as a Service Rifle never reappeared after 1940.
    I am a High Power Competitor(Service Rifle) and shoot all three legal rifles. While the M1 and M14 can be made to shoot as well as the AR15 it is not cost effective to do so. You will spend $3,000+ to get the accuracy of a $950 NM AR15.
    The current rules are pretty much anything goes with the only restriction being that the AR has to fire the 223REM/5.56 and it has to look like an M16A2. Some competitor's ARs weigh in at 18lbs. Heavy barrel and lead weights front and back. The sights are precision 1/4 minutes with tiny apertures and a lens in the aperture is allowed. Not a battle ready rifle.
    Next year this all goes out the window as the CMP has seen fit to allow optics and adjustable butt stocks and as the rules are written right now a shooter can choose to shoot the irons sights or they can shoot an optic. Optics are restricted to 4.5X magnification and a 34mm objective. Only the optic equipped rifle will have a weight limit, 11.5lbs. The iron sighted AR no longer has to look like the M16A2 and if the CMP does not tighten the rules we will see competitors shooting 20" barreled AR based match rifles with precision aperture sights at both ends. It is going to be a bit of a cluster for quite some time.

  8. #8

    Default

    Well, from what Cosine26 and Wolley are saying, I'm glad I retired from service rifle competition a while back! Too confusing! (Besides which, I can't get down into the positions anymore!)
    Can't complain though . . . . I had a great ride back in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's! --Jim

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