CMP's 1911 Notice

[Ken Hill]

This was in my mornings email. Let's hope so!

An update on the 1911 pistols. The revised NDAA has passed the House and Senate. It is on its way to the President's desk for signature. We have no further information at this time.

Thank you for your support,
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer

[Cosine26]

CMP and the M1911
I do not wish to "rain on anyone's parade" or be the harbinger of doom but I should like to put forth some thoughts to consider.
It is my opinion that, even if the CMP does gain owner ship of the M1911 & 1911A1 pistols presently in the army inventory, it will face an enormous problem in selling them to members. Given the myriad of federal, state, county and city laws ,ordnances, and regulation controlling the sale and possession and ownership of handguns by local populations. As a private corporation(] "The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq.). Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army's inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no federal funding." This was extracted from the CMP Page)the CMP will probably have to employ a rather extensive legal staff to comply with all such laws and ordnances before selling and shipping these handguns. At one time, the CMP could ship rifles directly to purchases with no problems. I know that in the state of California and perhaps many other jurisdictions, mandate that all firearms must now go through a licensed firearms dealer. In some states, the dealer must have special authorization to sell handguns over and above the federal laws. There are other peculiarities . In the state of New York, NYC pistol licenses are recognized throughout New York state, but licenses issued by authorized authorities outside NYC are not recognized by NYC. Some states require that applicants pass certain tests before purchasing a handgun.
Let us look at some practical considerations.
1. What is the condition of these pistols?
2. Are they all RFI (ready for issue) or are some of them retrograde material turned in to supply for overhaul?
3. I would assume that they are of both the M1911 and the M1911A1 configuration. The M1911 was superseded by the M1911A1 in 1921. I believe that the last procurement of M1911 series was in 1945. These are not pristine collector items but are/were items of issue for use as tools of the services.
4. Many of them have been overhauled more than, once though there might be some in pristine in "new in the box" condition (very few I would think).
5. The US government wants to dispose of the them because of the cost of maintaining them. Can the CMP provide the storage and security management for a lesser cost.?
6. Does this disposition include spare parts ?
7. These factors must be taken into consideration when pricing these pistols for sale. What if the established price exceeds the cost of a new M1911 model from Colt or other manufacturers? Does the collector value warrant such a larger price? That is for the collector to answer. When one wants to restore one of these to a better condition-what is the availability and cost to do so. A number of years ago I purchased a new in the wrap new Colt M1911 slide with all of the internal parts for $80.00. What would that cost today - if available?
There are I suspect other questions that need be asked.
I expect that I shall get some feed back to these comments.

[blackhawk2]

they will break them down and sell them as kits, just like the m-14.....they will make a ton of money.....maybe enough to open an indoor range in Ohio.....regards....alex

[Shooter5]

All valid points. There are hurdles to deal with; the transfer alone will likely dictate a mandatory FFL transaction. I estimate price range averaging $1500 to $2000 with unique examples going to auction. Most pistols will be mix master and not in OEM condition. Neither of those factors concerns me in the slightest and I will be willing to purchase one regardless of the requirements.

[Johnny P]

$1500 to $2000 rebuilds are no prize. They can be found for less than that on today's market, and you get to pick out the one you want.

[Ken Hill]

All good points and taking into consideration that all these pistols will have to go thru an FFL That said they will be C&R compliant. Also states that do not have laws allowing rifle imports becUse of local law seems not to have been affecred by CMP transactions.

My guess is the pistols will be graded and the good examples will be culled out. Most likely the box and the "paperwork" will be the real commodity.

[PhillipM]

I don't know why everyone says they will have to go through FFL's when the Garands don't... well at least in the free states. It may turn into a situation where many can't buy them due to their local and state laws.

[Chris W.]

I agree that in some states or cities it will be more difficult, that said the 10,000 a year pistol sale will be sell out fast. There might be a few high value " new in the box " pistols in the group, I'd look for those to go on the auction site for the highest sale price they might bring. Think the CMP leadership is sharp enough to figure out that a rebuild sold through them isn't worth more than what they bring in the open market. In their charter they are required to sell for " market value ". That's why their prices keep going up. Can't imagine what my IHC M1 would go for now, I got my for $165 way back when. That market value will very depending on what's for sale, expect for that to be reflected in the price. These pistols are classified as a C&R, and those CMP members having one, and living outside of California and New York and DC should have minimum problem with a transfer. Those not having a C&R license could do a normal FFL transfer with few problems, or the same as a normal handgun purchase. I don't see this as a problem for the CMP. All of this is putting the cart in front of the horse, lets see if the CMP can actually get these moved to their warehouse, think that's the first step. To that end I wish the CMP the best of luck with this. Our parents and Grandparents paid for these in sweat, taxes and blood. They should be returned to American families.
Chris

[PhillipM]

I agree that in some states or cities it will be more difficult, that said the 10,000 a year pistol sale will be sell out fast. There might be a few high value " new in the box " pistols in the group, I'd look for those to go on the auction site for the highest sale price they might bring. Think the CMP leadership is sharp enough to figure out that a rebuild sold through them isn't worth more than what they bring in the open market. In their charter they are required to sell for " market value ". That's why their prices keep going up. Can't imagine what my IHC M1 would go for now, I got my for $165 way back when. That market value will very depending on what's for sale, expect for that to be reflected in the price. These pistols are classified as a C&R, and those CMP members having one, and living outside of California and New York and DC should have minimum problem with a transfer. Those not having a C&R license could do a normal FFL transfer with few problems, or the same as a normal handgun purchase. I don't see this as a problem for the CMP. All of this is putting the cart in front of the horse, lets see if the CMP can actually get these moved to their warehouse, think that's the first step. To that end I wish the CMP the best of luck with this. Our parents and Grandparents paid for these in sweat, taxes and blood. They should be returned to American families.
Chris

If I buy a Garand out of state from anyone other than the CMP, I need an FFL 03 or shipped to an FFL 01 for transfer, same as a pistol.

Why would the 1911's be different?

[Chris W.]

Wouldn't be any different Phillip, exactly the same. One difference is, last time I checked, the CMP runs a Brady Check on all firearms purchases. A CMP transfer to a FFL requires no Brady Check to either a 03 or a 01 FFL, and that said, a person without a FFL would be run by a transfer dealer in his own state at the time they fill out a 4473 form and transfer the pistol. No different than that Garand bought out of state. A 03 FFL could just pick it up, or get it shipped direct to the address listed on the 03 FFL ( as I have many times before ) and be in compliance with the law. Some states ( CA ) don't allow this to happen, and force you to use a 01 FFL, but most still do. Still we are putting the cart before the horse some. CMP might come up with it's own process based in it's need to comply with the law, these could differ some.
Chris