What to fire in a LN receiver

[chuckindenver]

from the owner of said rifle,,

It was a 14 grains of unique with a 311284 bullet cast with lyman #2 alloy and gas checked

[PhillipM]

Published cast bullet load? Who published it? Do we know for a fact that the case didn't hold a double or triple charge of powder? (Hard to tell once the powder has been burned, no?) Was the bullet from the previous shot lodged in the barrel? Are there witnesses who can vouch for the QC during the whole process from the loading bench to the firing line? A pic of a wrecked LN receiver is truly disturbing, but until I'm satisfied as to the provenance of the circumstances that caused it, I'll withhold judgement on this one.

IMO the LN rifles have a pretty low margin of error and an egregious act (shooter error) that wouldn't unduly strain a more modern action could indeed rupture it.

Just as in incidents of crazy people going on killing sprees, are we going to rush to judgement and blame the gun and not the shooter?

I think he double charged it, some say it was the semi-mythical detonation where the powder goes off like a bomb, the case head ruptured and had to hammer it out, but of course he denied it could possibly be his reloads. Then he mentioned in another comment it was strange because he had been shooting 35 regular power loads just before with no problems.

If you elect to shoot a low number, my advise is to use standard milsurp ball or standard loads with slow burning powder like 4895, 4350, and 4831 and stay far away from pistol powders like Unique. If you double charge with pistol powder, you blow up, if you double charge with rifle powder, you have a mess.

I don't shoot mine, but I wouldn't be scared to, because I have high numbers just like the low numbers that shoot great.

[13Echo]

Good advice from Phillip.

The rifle in question certainly had one of the brittle receivers however it had nicely survived regular full power loads only to succumb to a low power cast bullet load. I'd bet sugar cookies that it was a double charge. I'd really like to see the bolt and case.

A double charge of pistol powder is a rifle wrecker. A savage 110, a strong action, let go at the local range last weekend for the same reason. That said the LN '03 is known to have problems. I shoot mine.

Jerry Liles

[PhillipM]

Good advice from Phillip.

The rifle in question certainly had one of the brittle receivers however it had nicely survived regular full power loads only to succumb to a low power cast bullet load. I'd bet sugar cookies that it was a double charge. I'd really like to see the bolt and case.

A double charge of pistol powder is a rifle wrecker. A savage 110, a strong action, let go at the local range last weekend for the same reason. That said the LN '03 is known to have problems. I shoot mine.

Jerry Liles

He didn't show the bolt. Caption, "13 grains of unique 200 grain lead bullet cci 200 primers. This is the case I beat out of the chamber"

Other comments he made: "The bolt looks to be undamaged. Took a block and a hammer to get pOpen and a1/4 steelrod to get the case out"

"My son is a safe reloaded and has not had any problems with the many hundreds he has loaded"

"The sad part or good part he had just fired 35 full power loads"

"It was a 14 grains of unique with a 311284 bullet cast with lyman #2 alloy and gas checked"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1903loverscollectors/

[StockDoc]

from the owner of said rifle,,

It was a 14 grains of unique with a 311284 bullet cast with lyman #2 alloy and gas checked

save your fingers Chuck, you will not convince them. Let them add ammo to "Gun Grabbers" that guns are dangerous. "Rifle blows up killing/injuring shooter, guns are unsafe"

[swampyankee]

Some how we got off track, I asked if there was any safe way of shooting them besides converting to .22 or do you think that will blow them up also. How about those pistol cartridge inserts. How about that practice ammo with the plastic ball. The receiver can't be that fragile ,or it would shatter just closing the bolt.

[louis]

I collect them but don't shoot them. I'm really surprised as how the price on them has jumped considering they should NOT be fired. It was a great way to collect 03's.

[Art]

Disclaimer - while most low number rifles are probably safe with good mil spec ammo; I personally don't shoot them.

I understand that a good many of the failures were with "Guard Cartridges." These were reduced velocity cartridges for use on guard duty in locations out of combat zones. They were often loaded with pistol powder. Pistol powder seems to be especially bad mojo with these rifles.

Most of the L.N. failures were caused by failure of the cartridge case head so modern mil spec ammo of good quality is probably safe in most of them, note I said mil spec. If I were reloading for a L.N. rifle I would use mild loads and not push my luck on the brass at all. Using the M1 Garand data available from sources like the Hornaday Handbook and backing off maybe 5%-10% from the max would be my choice. All brass I would use if I were reloading for a low number rifle would be virgin or once fired.

Just my thoughts.

[13Echo]

Just saw the picture of the cartridge case. Sure looks like a case head failure with expanded primer pocket. Suggests high pressure. A similar failure will take apart a Pre-64 Mod 70 in the same way. The Savage M110 I mentioned earlier also succumbed to case head high pressure failure.

While I don't advocate using high pressure loads in a LN '03 I do have to note the pre-64 Mod 70 was also often heat treated to a brittle state and with its Springfield like cone breach has just as much cartridge head hanging out and will come apart in exactly the same manner with case head failure yet you never hear of warnings not to shoot an old Model 70.

That said there is just enough smoke that I tend to stick to very mild loads in my '03 and have no desire to hunt down an Old Mod 70. I'd rather have a Double Heat Treated '03.

My two cents

Jerry Liles

[louis]

There was this same debate not only just a few weeks ago here. That was a lengthy debate. They all end up the same. Open to debate again.