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  1. #1
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    Default A warning for those who hunt deer with their Krags

    There has been some helminths discovered in the US that are genetically related to those that cause the disease Onchocerciasis, aka river blindness. In particular, they were discovered in upstate NY. Little is known about them, but the potential for zoonotic transfer to humans is there. I can tell you some of what they do, cause the danged things are in my hands producing microfilaria. They can make your face puffy, your nose bigger and they can effect vision. One of the places they live when they find themselves in something other than their usual host is the meninges. I'm probably not the first case of zoonotic infection with them, but know from experience, the Dr will take a look at your hands, say it's a neuropathy or arthritis and if you argue with him, he'll label you as delusional! Guys, wear gloves when skinning deer! Mark Daiute, you saw the change in my face in a few year's time. Cleaning deer isn't the only way to get them. Their vector isn't known yet, but I would venture to guess about anything that would bite a deer and later bite you is a candidate. Horseflies and deerflies would top the list followed by mosquitoes, fleas, those pesky eye gnats and any other blood sucker. One can't hide from them all and be a hunter. But let me tell you, you don't want to mess with them! I been fighting them for over 4yrs, but I've had them a lot longer than that. Now this will make some of you start researching. You'll run into the standard dribble, don't even try to argue with me about it being something that's only in Africa or some other tropical land, you'll just clutter up the post like one fellow did on castboolits.com. I'll give you the link to the freshest info. As far as what they can do? Well they can blind you, I don't think any of you want to become someone that can only shoot in the direction of a sound. And, they can kill you in time. Once one worm species is in, the door is open, via immune suppression, for any other species of helminth. Each has their own little niche to live in and sometimes when you kill one species, another species becomes overwhelming. I don't think these species are new, been here all along with their vectors. Could be some of what is behind CWD. The microfilaria are only .009" long, and a heck of a lot skinner. Got any open cuts, they'll dive right in there to avoid dessication, about the only way I know to kill them. The adults can seal themselves in dead ends of your lymphatic system and chemicals can't get to them. They go on producing microfilaria, and they can live for years! Microfilaria are relatively easy to kill. Any questions, I'll answer what my limited knowledge and personal experience will allow. For those of you not scientifically inclined, I suggest you skip to the discussion in the research paper. These things tried to kill me, they are my enemies, help to spread the word to any hunting forum you might be a member of. https://melittology.files.wordpress....cfrederick.pdf I'm winning, but it has been a rough battle! Mods, I think this should be a sticky!
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    Last edited by madsenshooter; 03-30-2015 at 08:07.
    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2

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    Oh, God, Bob, I'm so sorry.

    Funny, I love dressing a deer. Yup, that's a strange thing to say, but it takes me right back to being a teenager and seeing my dad just about glowing over the fresh meet. He's been gone since '92, I can't get him back, but when I dress a deer he's looking right over my shoulder.

    Bob, get well! Meantime, I'll be careful when I dress a deer next time.
    "A man with a tractor and a chain saw has no excuses, nor does he need any"
    Me. "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" Emerson "Consistency is the darling of those that stack wood or cast bullets" Me.

  3. #3

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    Ouch! That's not good at all. Glad you are "winning". Our prayers are with you.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I'm getting over it Mark, if you read the paper, one of the two species they found in upstate New York has some bovine ancestors. That means that somewhere in the past they may have been hit with and developed some resistance to the standard therapy that is given in Africa, as that's what is regularly used in cattle here, has been for some time. Many deer generations anyway. Some people's immune system would shrug them off, but my father and I have blood types that are very rare here in the US. AB and B. Notice in the discussion that the researcher believes there are other species here yet to be discovered. I don't know about the deer population in Maine Mark, but here in SE Ohio, when I was a boy in the 60's it was very rare to see a deer. Now they're in people's yards! It's not easy to discover that you have the vermin, they don't run around and make themselves known. Dogs get the things too! Mom had one large dog that developed a lump on his neck, and he was going blind. I found there are lymphatic ducts where his lump developed. When the things finally got through where his immune system was trying to hold them back, he fell over dead! So there is someone watching over my shoulder too Mark, the more I read about these things, the more I understand just how merciful he is, it could be a lot worse! I've been working with a LLMD, researching for her, and I've been contacting other Lyme Drs, as they have patients with helminthic infections that aren't resolving. The fellow who wrote the article has done a great service by putting the DNA sequences of both worm species and their wolbachia symbiot in the database. I'll get the LLMDs to demand that PCR testing be made available via the NIH. They already test for the tropical varieties. There's a lot more of this around than people realize, I personally know two other hunters with the swollen hands, one of those has hands and fingers about double normal size. Help me spread the word!
    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
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    Default

    Hope you get better real soon.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by madsenshooter View Post
    I'm getting over it Mark, if you read the paper, one of the two species they found in upstate New York has some bovine ancestors. That means that somewhere in the past they may have been hit with and developed some resistance to the standard therapy that is given in Africa, as that's what is regularly used in cattle here, has been for some time. Many deer generations anyway. Some people's immune system would shrug them off, but my father and I have blood types that are very rare here in the US. AB and B. Notice in the discussion that the researcher believes there are other species here yet to be discovered. I don't know about the deer population in Maine Mark, but here in SE Ohio, when I was a boy in the 60's it was very rare to see a deer. Now they're in people's yards! It's not easy to discover that you have the vermin, they don't run around and make themselves known. Dogs get the things too! Mom had one large dog that developed a lump on his neck, and he was going blind. I found there are lymphatic ducts where his lump developed. When the things finally got through where his immune system was trying to hold them back, he fell over dead! So there is someone watching over my shoulder too Mark, the more I read about these things, the more I understand just how merciful he is, it could be a lot worse! I've been working with a LLMD, researching for her, and I've been contacting other Lyme Drs, as they have patients with helminthic infections that aren't resolving. The fellow who wrote the article has done a great service by putting the DNA sequences of both worm species and their wolbachia symbiot in the database. I'll get the LLMDs to demand that PCR testing be made available via the NIH. They already test for the tropical varieties. There's a lot more of this around than people realize, I personally know two other hunters with the swollen hands, one of those has hands and fingers about double normal size. Help me spread the word!
    Is this another form of Lyme disease? the reason I ask is a person I know has Lyme disease but as far as I know he does not display anything like what you describe. He also travels to Salt Lake City for treatments. I am sorry for your affliction and hope you can recover as much as possible I wouldn't wish that misery on anyone.
    I DDUW BO'R DIOLCH

  7. #7
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    BudT, ticks might also carry it. When the Lyme spirochete was discovered, the scientist also noted several different helminth species within ticks. The little ones that the adults produce are only .009" long and a lot thinner, pretty close to being invisible to the naked eye. These are the ones meant to picked up by a fly or other blood sucker. The adults are up to 2" long. Could be worse, some species in horses get up to 11" long! Lots of folks with Lyme are also infected with helminths, either from the tick itself, or because of the Lyme spirochete's inhibition of their immune system. Many people who have them wouldn't display the same symptoms as me, I have type B blood, rare here in the US, but much more prevalent where river blindness is endemic. I've noted a couple other fellows around here that have the swelled hands, their blood types are different from mine and thus far it isn't causing them the eye problems, or the joint problems that this has caused me.
    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8

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    Yikes! get well Bob.


    jn

  9. #9
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    Thanks for well wishing Jon, and you steer clear of them too. The one's in elk are bigger as adults, but as babies, microfilaria, are just as infective. My joints feel sooo much better now that something isn't eating the lubricating fluids!
    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10

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    The eggs can be nasty, too. I've been pretty lucky all these years of drinking from springs and mountain creeks. But I think I'll invest in a good water filtration unit that can remove helminth eggs as well as the larvae. If I can get it together for the Italy trip in May ... and I'm gonna wear blue gloves next time I clean a deer.

    jn

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