Boogered Up Victory Model

[Art]

I went shooting with a buddy up in College Station. He brought a friend with him who wanted me to look at a couple of guns that had belonged to the friend's dad. The friend's dad was a WWII Marine who made every landing the 2nd Marine Division participated in 1943. One gun was a pretty generic '03A2 post war rebuild with a scant stock. Nice gun but unremarkable.

The other was a different story. It was a 5 screw M&P revolver that was so heavily plated that it was difficult to read some of the lettering. It did have "England" on the cylinder. The barrel had been cut down to the front of the ejector rod which included the removal of the front locking assembly on the barrel. The original ejector rod went to the end of the cut down barrel. The original front sight had been removed and silver soldered onto the cut down barrel. There was no way to determine the caliber by looking at it, but I told the fellow I suspected that it was a cut down "Victory Model" used by the Brits. He had some generic .38 Special ammo that he fired through it. The gun was accurate but shot very low, as might be expected. The ejected cases told the tale on caliber. The .38 Special nickel plated cases were seriously blown out, but not ruptured in front of the case head.

I suggested that in the future, if he shot the gun, he should try to find some .38 S&W ammo for it. It was a shame to see the old girl in such condition, not only cut down but very badly cut down in the deal.

[Johnny P]

When the S&W Victory Model was imported back into the U.S. commercial market most had been in .38 S&W caliber for the British. The cartridge was mot very popular at the time, so it was common for the importer to have the cylinders reamed out enough to take the longer, but smaller in diameter, .38 S&W Special cartridge. The cartridge cases do expand upon firing.

[joem]

Shame to cut it up like that. If you search LDS you should find some .38S&W ammo or you could set up to reload it.

[RED]

He killed Officer Tibbets with a .38 S/W Victory model that had been reamed to take the .38 special and the barrel cut down.

For what it is worth ($000), the conversion to .38 special should be safe enough providing the .38 Special +P ammo is entirely avoided The correct bullet for the .38 S&W is usually .360" vs. the .357," .38 special. This difference would, probably reduce the pressure to safer levels.

Cases can be made from .38 Spec. brass by trimming to length and resizing in .38 S&W dies. Personally I shoot my old Iver Johnson top break using .38 short Colt brass with .357 diameter RNL.

[Art]

He killed Officer Tibbets with a .38 S/W Victory model that had been reamed to take the .38 special and the barrel cut down.

For what it is worth ($000), the conversion to .38 special should be safe enough providing the .38 Special +P ammo is entirely avoided The correct bullet for the .38 S&W is usually .360" vs. the .357," .38 special. This difference would, probably reduce the pressure to safer levels.

Cases can be made from .38 Spec. brass by trimming to length and resizing in .38 S&W dies. Personally I shoot my old Iver Johnson top break using .38 short Colt brass with .357 diameter RNL.

I'm sure you're right about the safety part. Lots of old Webleys had the backs of their cylinders milled down to take .45ACP in half moon clips and on paper that probably wasn't a good idea either but I've never heard of one blowing up. Firearms are over-engineered enough that they'll take reasonable abuse, sometimes unreasonable abuse.

The most extreme case of cylinder tinkering I've seen was a S&W Model 12 (I've mentioned this one before) that I took off an old boy I arrested. When I unloaded it six rounds of .357 Magnum popped out. I did several double takes !!. Later I was talking to the S&W warranty guy and he said he'd seen that "field modification" in the past on other K frame .38s including at least one other Model 12. He said the owner of the Model 12 was brought to him by the owner when it stopped shooting. The aluminum frame had peen beaten back enough that the firing pin would no longer reach the primer. According to the 'smith it didn't take too many rounds to accomplish that either.

I don't think this fellow is interested in reloading or even shooting the revolver much but I'll pass the information on too him re rolling his own.

[Johnny P]

While some of the .38 Special cases just expanded when fired in the .38 S&W chamber, some also split. Starline Brass makes cases for the .38 S&W which would be a much better choice if someone wants to shoot one on a regular basis.

I think Tibbets flew the Enola Gay, and Oswald killed Office Tippit.

[oldtirediron]

I have seen that tape trick probably a hundred time, many time the cartridge ruptured and injured the shooters hand ! but the dirt bag gang members kind of got what they deserved- Ignorance is pretty common with the make believe TV style gangsters! Best comment after an idiot shot himself-" Get that gun away from me --it's dangerous!"

[oldtirediron]

Another good one was when they shot themselves through the hand or down the leg; Idiot's go to pull the pistol out of a pocket or their waistband with the correct response! Always the gun's fault !! It always just went off for no reason! I remember another time a gang member sitting in the back seat of a car during a drive by they were doing, got a little trigger happy and shot the driver point blank through the back of his head with a 9mm pistol-- They were at the hospital asking when their friend would be discharged and the police waited and got all the moron's names for the Gang intelligence unit !

[John Sukey]

You haven't seen boogered until you see the victory model I got from the U.K.
The chambers were milled out, leaving just enough metal to keep the cylinder from falling out!