M1 carbine use on Guadalcanal?

[firstflabn]

Total through August 1942 when the battle for Guadalcanal started was 11708.

That's a bit of a strawman. Unless you're talking pipe tobacco for MacArthur or salve for Halsey's skin ailment, chances are virtually nil that any item made it half way around the world from the factory to an active theater in a few weeks - especially so in the desperate days of 1942 where shipping was frequently the greatest constraint. No amazon.com for troopies in those days.

As to the Guadalcanal carbine anecdotes of other posters: am I the only one who understands that Guadalcanal was occupied continuously from Aug 7, '42 'til at least June '45? As the rollup of SW Pacific bases gathered steam, the garrison on Guadalcanal dropped from about 20,000 in March '45 to just under 5,000 by the end of June. On the latter date, a report shows more carbines on the island than personnel. Without a date, such stories are useless in answering our trivia question (that expanded from the OP's question about action in Oct '42).

As to questions about when the marines or navy got this or that piece of equipment, unsourced claims are similarly useless, no matter how boldly asserted.

[Art]

My old daddy was a SeaBee who went in 1n 1943. He said training consisted of Navy Boot Camp after which they were handed off to the Marines for weapons familiarization. From what he said he left the Marines familiar with everything but proficient with nothing. Dad's personal weapon on Samar was a shotgun, but the weapon he used the most was the 4.2" mortar he helped crew. He said he was very happy that they never had to move it after installation. The second half of Huie's history of the SeaBees "From Omaha to Okinawa" specifically mentions a SeaBee on Peleliu who was armed with an M1 Carbine who swapped it for an '03 when it didn't have the desired effect on a Japanese he had to finish off with a knife.

As far as an ex SeaBee having an early M1 Carbine, he could have acquired it at any time in the war or afterwards and since there seems to be dispute as to whether he was a Marine or a SeaBee it might not apply at all. However, knowing the WWII SeaBee talent for "midnight requisitions" my money would be on the fellow having been a SeaBee if the carbine was indeed a bring back.

I personally find it doubtful that any SeaBees would have been issued an M1 Carbine in 1942 but anything is possible. When I hear stories like this though I am reminded of my favorite uncle's comment that after 50 years or so history starts to become legendary.

[TDP0311]

To try to clear the air (but likely muddy the water) about all of this, there are legitimate reasons why the Marines of the 1st Marine Division stormed ashore with their trusty Oh-Three's, and none of them are due to army bias. First off, 1MarDiv didn't just ship out and head straight to the Canal, they were deployed since very early 42 and took the weapons they had with them. With early logistics, there was no chance for them to be equipped with Garands until after the battle.

Also, the myth that early Garands and Carbines went strictly to the army is dispelled by the SRS data. there were many pre 12/7/41 Garands given to the Marines, as Congress specifically ordered in mid 1941 for the Marines to be given them immediately (this was an issue after the Marines had preferred the 1903 in the late 30s, and also been loyal to Johnson). This is thoroughly covered with much insight by Canfield in "The M1 Garand Rifle." As for the SRS data, there are confirmed Carbines going to the Marines from as low as the 4 digits, and there are several Carbine serial numbers confirmed to the Raiders near the 20k range. The Garands are the same way, with a particular density of USMC hits in the early 1941 range. Two of these rifles, 196162 and 208825, showed up on a Marine squad leader's EDL from Okinawa (featured in the GCA several times).

Yes, the Marines were definitely stubborn about giving up their beloved 1903, and the short sightedness of that decision was painfully apparent when they had hordes of Japanese charging them from jungles just 100 yards out on the Canal, but had the 1st Marine Division not been deployed so very early in the war, they would have gone in armed with different weapons.

[southfork]

My Dad was a Marine Lt (and later Captain) with the 1st Marine Division who got to Guadacanal in August 1943. He brought with him his Marine-issued Inland M1 Carbine, sn 238546. There were still hostilities on Quadacanal from time to time in 1943 and 1944, and he used his carbine some there. He carried that Inland carbine in the invasion of Vella La Vella in September '43 when a Marine platoon and 3 marine officers were temporarily assigned to the 3rd New Zeeland Army Division. Back with the 1st marine Division, he carried the Inland on New Caladonia and again on Guadacanal. He also carried in the invasion of Peleliu in 1944, and again in the Battle of Okinawa in early 1945. He had to leave Inland carbine sn 238546 at the beach/dock when he caught a boat out of Okinawa in July 1945, and headed for Camp La Jeune NC. All this info from his war-time journal.

[TDP0311]

Awesome story southfork, thanks for sharing! If I ever run across that serial number, I'll definitely get in touch!

[hkp7fan]

"The .30 Caliber Carbine. We never saw this nice little weapon on Guadalcanal, though we had been hearing of it for more than a year..."

LTC John George, "Shots Fired in Anger", p 393

[emmagee1917]

" The first carbines I saw were on Guadalcanal . Some of the officers had one , but not many . " Jim Campbell , Marine raider and good friend . I'll see him this weekend and confirm .
He was in the initial landing and stayed until they were relieved a few months later .
Chris

[Chuck Russell]

Lt. Col. Russel P. Reeder talked to 5th and 7th Regiment Marines and soldiers of the 164th Infantry after the Guadalcanal campaign. These interviews were included in a paperback sized pamphlet, "Fighting on Guadalcanal", published by the GPO in 1943. Among the comments from a conference with 3, 2nd Lt.s and 5 NCO's of 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines: "The Thompson sub-machine gun or carbine is needed, as they execute their [Japs] attacks en masse. We understand the carbine will have more penetrating power than the Thompson."
This conference concluded with these statements: "Be mean and kill 'em. Kill 'em dead. Our motto in this Platoon is 'No prisoners.' "