M1868 "Additional" Serial Numbering

[Reptile46]

I've recently acquired a Model 1868 with the matching serial number 20251 on the left side of the receiver and barrel as one would expect and no year on the breech block. It has what is probably militia stamping on the top of the stock behind the hammer/receiver, but it also has the number 6008 stamped on the right side of the barrel just in front of the receiver. I've seen a couple of references to such markings, which appear to be stamped as a group, not as individual numbers, but does anyone know what they mean? Are they another form of downstream user markings? Thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry to have not responded sooner. Yes, the additional number on the right side is some sort of inventory marking from a secondary user. It is more often found on Model 1870 rifles - which, for the most part were not serially numbered. The undated (I assume it has a small eagle facing left and US) blocks are field replacement items, not often seen. Your rifle would most likely have been dated "1870".

[Reptile46]

Yes, it has the eagle and the US markings on the breech block. I suspected a production date in 1870 based on the serial number, but expected to see 1870 on the breech block, as well. I am awaiting a Model 1870 that should be delivered late this week. When I have it in hand is there anything I should be looking for that would make it stand out from the crowd? Photos have the ESA cartouche on the stock and Model 1870 on the breech block. as well as a crisply stamped "A" on the trigger housing. It appears to be in very good condition as a representative sample of the model. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Rifle2.jpgRifle7.jpgRifle8.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

The biggest "issue" with buying a Model 1870 is that SO many sellers list 1870-dated Model 1868s as Model 1870s. A true Model 1870 must have the short receiver. The first 1000 Model 1870 rifles (and the 340 carbines) which were made for trial have the rear sight tight against the receiver like the 1868. These are scarce, if not rare. After acceptance, the first production run lacks "Model" on the block and retains the single-shouldered rod of the 1868. The second production batch (what you are getting) has the word "Model" and also the improved double shoulder rod. You can see examples of all models at www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af. You also might like my book on the .58/.50 Springfields - $25 to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932, for a signed copy, postpaid in the US.

[Reptile46]

Thanks for the information. I actually had the opposite "issue" in acquiring this Model 1870. It was listed as a M1868, but the photos accompanying the ad made me suspect it was a Model 1870. I asked for additional photos which confirmed my suspicions and I bought it immediately. I've already bought a hard copy of your book on line at Amazon and I downloaded a soft copy for Kindle. I've only gone through the chapters on the M1868 and M1870 rifles and they are very informative. Here's a photo of the breech block on the Model 1870.
rifle1.jpg

[Reptile46]

I received the M1870 yesterday and went over it with a fine tooth comb. It has all of the stamps in the metal and the one cartouche I would expect. The one thing I didn't expect was the "H" stamped in the top underside of the breech block. Is this an inspection stamp like the "A" on the trigger housing?

M1870 Breech Block.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

You have touched on a subject that we really know little about. There is little consistancy about such marks - some parts have them and some don't. Probably the most common ones from the .50-70 period are the "X" or the "D" at the barrel witness mark. Also, such marks could - but probably don't, because they are so random - indicate completetion of a certain process, or they could, in some cases, be ID marks for payment by piece-work, etc. Other interpretations are certainly possible. Sorry to not have a better answer for you.

[Reptile46]

Thanks. I'll just call it unique. By the way there is no "X" or "D" at the barrel witness mark.