Fat (.310 - .311) Bullets in the 1917

[RC20]

Something to keep in mind is the necks get stiff and at some point either need to be annealed or replaced.

I am playing with annealing but its a tricky issue with temperature control.

Better to under heat than over, once too much the case won't return.

Internet wisdom is heat to color change to low red, really that's too hot, color change short of orange or red and that's a tough line to walk.

so far better than not but still working on it, got my fist ones a bit too hot (the color change should polish off) but not by a lot. No more neck cracks and better seating (it was getting very hard)

Lot of opinions but its both a temperature and a time (if you can heat at the lower temp long enough it does the same as higher temp shorter>

[Ken in Iowa]

Good point on annealing the necks. With .311" bullets and standard 30/06 dies, we are overworking the necks a bit.

The same holds true with the 7.62x54r Russian cartridge. Many sizing dies are setup for .308" bullets. If using fatter .310" or .311" bullets, there is an option to use a larger expander ball.

My old Lyman 7.62x54r FL die is setup for .308" bullets. Instead of going the expander ball route, I purchased a Lyman "M" die for 31 caliber which was designed for 303 British. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/199...ProductFinding

I have been using this tool to expand the 30/06 brass that I have been using with the fat bullets. It works perfectly for this chore.

It looks to be another fine day in Iowa. I have the COAL test loads ready to go. I hope to get to the range this afternoon.

[RC20]

Good shooting, I am odd sift weekend and try to shoot today, errands and cloudy and cooler, maybe tomorrow (mine have not arrive yet)

I will see how my ordered 303s do, they will go in the slightly softer necks so may work fine.

I am using the older cases for the 1917 as it does not seem to care so much, have not had enough cycles in the newer cases ones to need to anneal.

I got a lot of 600 once fired RPs for 18 cents a case, adding a bunch of once fire RP range brass. Plan on getting the all prepped this winter (my brother has a Gerard trimmer setup for 30-06, so I don't hbave to hand trim with the Little Crow, we just do the whole lot in one easy go) and then shoot the whole summer (we shoot winter but neat nearly as much.)

I tend to shoot 50 or 75 yds as well. I think that result with irons sights is great, probably a 3/4 100 yd group if shooting a scope.

Plan on the fist group I shoot through the less capable Eddystone vs the Remington that shoots the 308s well (limitation being my eyes.

Will try on my Danish return, it’s a bit more worn, cool history going to Canada, to Denmark and then back to US (its got all the elements Ferris discusses in his 1917 book, neat to have one that fits it to a T like that)

[Ken in Iowa]

OK, we had a beautiful time at the range today. My test rounds were as follows;

FA57 GI Match cases- twice fired. CCI #200 primers. 46 gr IMR 4064. Hornady 174 gr .3105" (Actual .310") FMJBT

Test #1 .005" off the lands
Test #2 .025"
Test #3 .035"

I had goofed up on the seating die adjustment and did not load a batch at .015"

Test #1 was a bit odd. Group size was 1.8" with 2 shots in the same hole low and right from the other three. The two low shots were in the 10 ring.
Test #2 was nice. 4 of 5 shots grouped at .7" with 3 of them in the 10 ring. There was one high flyer that opened it up to 1.6".
Test #3 was all over the place. Group size was 3.4" in a vertical string.

I regret not having loaded .015" I suspect the optimal seating depth will be close to that number.

I know what the next test batch will be.

[RC20]

I may try a bit shorter on the next loadings. My 311s came in so have something to work with.
I am shooting 4350 exclusively so there may be powder preference in the spacing as well.

I think mine were .030 off the lands and I think closer was not doing so good, but that was also 308 diameter.

Never sure if the flyers are my eyes or something else!

Hope to get down next week. I had 1903 stuff loaded up, beautiful day let alone for Anchorage in October and the range was closed (Alaska day, aka former Seward day) drats, Not too many nice days left before snow flies and all too crisp!

[RC20]

I got 30 loaded up with 4350.

My Eddystone is not nearly as accurate as my Remington, it did ok with them, maybe a wash.

My Winchester Danish return which is the least accurate with 308s, did a lot better.

I got 4 inside of 1 3/8 at 75 yds (with a flyer which I have to measure)

I did not have a good sight picture as the sun was low and behind, not awful but not good with old eyes and the iron sights.

I think its worth experimenting with these, the Hornady being a shade small maybe better for it than the Sierra but maybe a wash as well.

they do come out pretty short to not stick in the lands. 3.200, I can't use (though may try) my depth gauge as the bullet is too large to fit the test shell.

[RC20]

I went online & checked some ammo sites for the .310-.311 bullets & they are listed as British .303`s. Is this correct?

A warning! There are WWII era barrels that were made by HS, JA and RIA that used the 1903 30-06 contour (i.e. 2 or 4 grove barrels with .004 groves) and those SHOULD NOT be shot with a 303 caliber (310 or 311 or any other diameters used for 303) as they would be a serious squeeze. Not sure what issues but no gain and possible barrel damage.

I have found my Sierra 174s have a COAL to the rifling of 3.210 to 3.220. Probably the longest COAL for a reloaded cartridge would be 3.200, I am going to try a bit shorter to the 3.190 range based on my finding for my best shooting rifle with the 308s that it liked .035 or so off the lands.

Again I am not saying it’s the only dimension but its worked well and not sure I can shoot well enough (see target) to refine.

Part of the problem is I am trying to shoot at 75 yds as that is what I am doing with the scoped 1903s I am shooting and 50 would give me a more accurate sight picture for the 1917 Iron sights with my eyes.

[Pentz]

I could not resist posting for us cast bullet shooters. My Enfields plop .3105 200-gr 311299s into great groups. In August fired a 10-round 300-yd group into a certified 3.573 group with my older 1917. Yesterday my pristine, original 1919 Winchester 5-groove with just 400 rounds through it so far managed a 100-yd 10-rounder at 1.360". Three-round groups are for play, 10-rounders for real ;-) Try cast, 100 rounds at a session with no flinch or bruising!

[RC20]

Great going. I cast bullets years back, all the mix and issues with getting lead etc pretty well did me off them.

On the other hand I can't see a target worth a hoot at 300 so that leaves me out (unless I put the SK mount on!)

I often shoot 60+ full loads with the FMJs so don't think 100 would botheer me much. for some reason the 1917 shoots good for me, my brother thinks it kicks, go figure.

[Ken in Iowa]

Great shooting Pentz!

I am dabbling with cast in a Krag and a Finnish Mosin.

What is the nose diameter of your 311299s?