Sporter 98k: Capture with Documents

[Shooter5]

Thanks KCW! I had despaired of finding a reasonable priced alternative so I have just been using the original scope but now perhaps I can put on a Leupold!
And now that you mentioned it, it does seem more likely/logical that a new barrel was installed with the 1968 proofs. I am certain that I didn't have the utter and complete history of a rifle that was in someones possession for nearly 40 years; a lot of could have happened to it beyond the records I have.

[kcw]

Thanks KCW! I had despaired of finding a reasonable priced alternative so I have just been using the original scope but now perhaps I can put on a Leupold!
And now that you mentioned it, it does seem more likely/logical that a new barrel was installed with the 1968 proofs. I am certain that I didn't the utter and complete history of a rifle that was in someones possession for nearly 40 years; a lot of could have happened to it beyond the records I have.

Those adaptor inserts will certainly give you plenty of scope options. I found it interesting that your rifle carries the IS stamping. That's the 1st gun that I've seen which uses that proof standard (in addition to the German requirements), but then again that's the 1st post WWII German Guild/Trade rifle I've seen. That outfit has been around for 100 years, but I've never seen a pre WWII German Guild gun that used that standard. My guess would be that the pre-WWII German proofhouses simply didn't want to bother with it as its usage wasn't required, and more importantly, as it wasn't German, it wasn't worth chit anyway in their opinion.
Something to be aware of if you should run into another sport type 98 in 8x57, is that early guns (ie. just before and after WWI, but maybe later too) may be chambered with the .318 bore, 8x57J round. The problem is that the only way to determine if it's the J or the later SJ (.323) is to have some knowledge of the proof markings used under the Proof Law of 1891, or have the barrel slugged. Under the original requirements of the 1891 law the bore size was stated in terms of "gauge" (lead balls to the pound). A barrel bearing a 156.14 (gauge) stamping under the wood (156.14 lead balls to the pound) = a J bore. A 141.95 stamp = the later .323 (JS) bore.
A few years ago one of my fellow club members showed up at the range with the 98 German sporting rifle that his grandfather had brought home from the war. It had the typical claw type scope mount, plus the common three leaf rear sight. Apparently the gun hadn't been fired until that day and he'd procured some of that high pressure Turk surplus which was available at gun shows for about $4.50 the 70 round bandolier . To say the least, recoil was brutal to the point that the double triggers tore into our fingers! My 1st impression of the gun was, "Who the heck would ever shoot this thing more than once?!" Some time later it dawned on me that the gun may have been chambered for the original 1888 (.318) 8x57J round. Upon examination we found that was in fact the case. We'd been firing high pressure .323 ammo in an unaltered .318 bored gun! It's testimony to the strength of the 98 action that we didn't blow the thing up, or at least screw up the headspace, etc.

[Shooter5]

Well, good info. Let's hope there aren't too many other .318 bores out there! Maybe the proof house but "IS" on barrel because they knew an American owned the rifle and they didn't want him to be confused?

Took apart the rifle and the results are non-spectacular: A more experienced eye can likely see where and if markings were ground off but it does appear there were 3 places on the receiver that had something ground.

Barrel: 16. 5. 68 and stag antler proof 8x57 IS 4384 serial number. Near the barrel attachment to the receiver: Top - 3 tiny marks: a symbol, possibly a 'T' G and symbol, possibly a '4'. Bottom: symbol 0,2 Bottom of barrel under rear sight: WAFFEN (or WARREN?) BOCK FRANKFURTH (or FRANKFURIH) each word below the other in column. There is small half centimeter slot milled on the underside of the barrel near the point where the front sling mount would be in the stock.

Receiver: 16.5.68 stag antler 4384 Large "A" (appears more like an oversized small case letter 'a') "unbraughbar" stamped twice

Bolt release lever: 82

Trigger: 03 and Two definite waffenamts [Eagle with 3 line wings, no swastika in talons] with number "23" below one and "25" below the other (the '5' might be another number).

I might try and look up the Gunsmith shop in Walldorf Germany and see if its still in business.

[kcw]

Waffen Bock Frankfurth. A gun related sporting goods outfit located on Berlin St in Frankfurt, Germany founded in 1887. They have a website. No doubt its services were pressed into use by the German government during periods of war (contracts for parts ect), not unlike U.S. companies. The stamping on your barrel however indicates civilian production, almost certainly post WWII. The outfit that rebarreled your gun bought the barrel from Waffen Bock Frankfurth, or its distributor.
Understand too that German civilian proof marks & military proof marks are two different things. Also, Nazi era arms production almost always used codes to indicate the source of manufacture. After all, the U.S. 8th Air Force had access to German road maps and telephone books. Not much point in allowing the name of a part supplier on a part that's going to be incorporated into a piece of armament.
I'm guessing that those eagle stamps with "three line wings" are practical mechanical adaptation of the post WWII eagle which is suppose to have six "feathers" hanging off each wing. I can see where making a stamp with six fine feathers would be a pain and subject to breakage. The post war eagles I'm looking at also have legs which look like an upside down, lower case letter "t" and a "tail" which looks more like a pedestal that the eagle might "sit" upon. Obviously it was redesigned to differentiate from the Nazi era eagle under the 1939 proof law, which was VERY much like the Nazi era military mark.

[da gimp]

Aw heck........... I can't get the dern photos to open in your private message & the ones at the top of the thread are closed too............ My chemo treatments have been kicking my butt............ & this is the first I've been on line in better than 2 weeks I think...... Please post them again here opened...... I'm too dam computer illiterate to know how to cut & paste them to open them & the grandkids have already left today. Am really looking forward to seeing them sir/shooter.

[Shooter5]

No problem but it might be easier to email them if you PM your address. I am busy with kids to repost! I don't like to leave pics posted too long on fotobucket. Hope ya'll are feeling better soon! God Bless.

[Bhauer]

Very cool. I love the 98 spoters.

[jgaynor]

Up until about 1958 or 1959 U.S. Military Personnel were paid is "scrip" which could only be spent at Military PX's, commissary's, restaurants or exchanged for DM. Germans were not supposed to be able to get their hands on "Scrip" and would have been paid in DM. In the late 50's the exchange rate was about 4 DM to $1.00. So i would think 500DM would have been about right.