"Correct" Winchester M1 Carbine For Sale On GB

[Conductor]

Regarding GB number 434498319:
I'm not so sure that this Winchester is correct at all. First of all, it's a rebuilt gun, with the fully-adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug.
My understanding of the rebuilding process is that the guns were stripped down to the barreled receiver, and all the minor parts were tossed into bins for later inspection and refinishing. The barreled receivers were inspected, barrels gauged and replaced if necessary, and the stocks were refinished or scrapped. The early-style rear sights were removed and replaced with the full-adjustable type, and the barrel bands were replaced with the type 3 bands that had a built-in bayonet lug.
When the process was complete, the guns were re-assembled, using the first parts that came to hand, with no attention being paid to which contractor made the parts. The resulting "mixmasters" were then returned to the arsenals and reissued as needed. These mixmasters were used in combat in Korea and in every other conflict that the US was involved in during the 1950s and early 1960s, until the adoption of the M16 ( and even later in some circumstances).
So how is it that this rebuilt carbine is a "correct" Winchester? To me the answer is clear: Someone is trying to pull a fast one on unsuspecting newbies who don't know the history of the US Carbine, Caliber 30 M1.
I have heard a lot of talk among guys who consider themselves "collectors" of USGI carbines, who want to buy only "all correct" or "all matching" GI carbines, and then turn around and pay exorbitant prices for rebuilt guns that have the "correct" parts installed. It would seem to me that the only "correct" all matching carbine would be one that has never been rebuilt, still has the flip sight and no bayonet lug.
Comments?

[Tuna]

It will all depend on the serial number as to what would be correct for it. Those carbines made in late 1944 and all of 1945 will have all of the updates including the type 3 barrel band and adjustable rear sights. Those made before then would be rebuilds if they have type 3 bands.

[Conductor]

I checked the pictures on the GB ad, and there is no mention of the production date. The serial number is 6.4 million, so that may very well put in into the late 44 or 1945 production range.
One of the main things that bothered me about it was the fact that it has a very prominent and deeply-stamped ordnance wheel, but not "WRA/GHD" stamp. What's up with that?

[BrianQ]

The adjustable rear sight, type 3 barrel band, and the ordnance stamp without the W.R.A over G.H.D. are correct for a 6.4 million Winchester carbine.

[Conductor]

Tune & BrianQ: Thanks for your help. I was not aware that late 1944 and 1945 carbines were manufactured with fully-adjustable rear sights and type 3 barrel bands. Also the bit about the lack of the WRA/GHD cartouche was helpful.

So it appears as if the carbine I referred to may very well be all correct.

Well, we learn something new every day.

One question, though: Does the fact about the rear sights and type 3 barrel band hold true for all manufacturers, or does it apply just to Winchester?

[TSimonetti]

Carbine sold for $1,700. Looks like it may have a NPM buttplate but otherwise likely correct/original.... Has a lot of things going for it, but there is a lot of collector bias out there against any late Winchester that does not have a Cowles T-3 band and has an Inland subcontractor band instead. This tends to depress their value.

Carbine Club documents up to 25 percent of late Winchesters that are otherwise correct in their database having T-3 bands other than Cowles. Problem is that there is no documentation that exists showing that Winchester acquired any bands other than Cowles for their production carbines.... Carbine Club does advise collectors NOT to change bands if their otherwise correct late Winchester has an "Inland" T-3 Band.

If it did have a Cowles T-3 band, I suspect the reserve would have been surpassed by a larger margin and approaching the BIN price.... Too bad for the seller. From his description, he seems to have been somewhat annoyed with that reality before the bidding even started.

The winning bidder got a decent deal. Because of it's overall condition and because he may have really known what he was looking at and was willing to take a chance on it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=434498319

[TSimonetti]

One question, though: Does the fact about the rear sights and type 3 barrel band hold true for all manufacturers, or does it apply just to Winchester?

You will only find original late production Winchesters and Inlands with both an adjustable sight and a t-3 band.

[Bolo-7]

On a original 6.4 Winchester a NPM butt plate is common. So you know a "collector" did not restore it with a late Winchester butt plate. So having the NPM butt plate is a good thing. It has not been restored to match a book.

[TSimonetti]

Good to know Bolo-7!!

[BrianQ]

Carbine Club does advise collectors NOT to change bands if their otherwise correct late Winchester has an "Inland" T-3 Band.

Actually it's "any other WWII era barrel band".