Singer grip comparison

[Tommy2guns]

Here are a few more photos of the singer grips in comparison to a set of the hollow back Colt 1911 grips with the re-enforcement ring as well ad a pair of Keyes grips without the ring as well.

Note the slightly tighter and smaller grid pattern of the singer compared to the Colt. The Keyes grips appear to follow the Singer characteristics a lot closer than the Colt example.

[gbethu]

Are both grips depicted in the third photo (showing the back of the grips ) Singer's ????

[Tommy2guns]

The one on the left is the hollow back set of Colt grips.

[Ed P]

When I count the rows between the rings on the Keyes and the Singer they are the same. 30 row between the rings.

[Tommy2guns]

Per Clawson's big ole book a 1911 gun knowledge. Or as I like to call it, "45s for idiots" he states that Singer made every part for their 1911A1 pistol except the grips.

They were manufactured by Keyes in New York City without the strengthening ribs. So I guess that explains the close characteristic to the standard Keyes grips that were made for other makes of 1911s.

And please don't think for a second I am referring to you as an idiot. I had to look it up myself.

Thank you for the comment....

[Ed P]

Its a pretty tough find to find a Singer with all the correct parts, usually the mags have been switched out. Is that Singer yours? About 5 years ago I found a Singer barrel at the Reno Show, yes it was actually a Singer barrel. Also, a person turned me on to a single sided Singer grip panel that Simpsons had for sale. At that time it was $500 for a left Singer panel. I know several people out there with Singers looking for parts to complete there guns, if they come up. Probably most gave up.

[tanker trash]

Thanks for the pics. I have a set of unmarked, hollow back, no ring grips that I have always wondered about.

[Tommy2guns]

1

[Tommy2guns]

1

[Scott Gahimer]

Wow...$2K for an appraisal? That's unreal. Of course, IIRC, Ralph Shattuck used to do appraisals and charge 15% of the appraised value for his work. So most of the items he appraised were valued pretty high. $2K is 4X as high as my highest price for authenticating anything. My prices are shown on my web site and haven't changed since launching the site in 2010. But...maybe it's time for an increase!

I believe it was the old Auction Arms or GunBroker thar used to have a link to a guy in CO who was a licensed appraiser. Before I launched my web site, I decided to give him a call and ask him about appraising a military .45 for me...to check out my "competition" and hear what his process was. I spoke with him about 5 minutes and realized he didn't really know anything about the pistols, serial ranges, finishes, variations, etc... He just told me to e-mail him "a photo" of the gun, pay him $XX (I don't remember how much) and he'd e-mail me the appraised value.

I asked him how he was able to authenticate the finish and parts as being original if he didn't inspect the pistol in-hand? He told me he didn't authenticate anything as an appraiser, he just told me what it was worth. I may not be the brightest boy on the block, but I know if you can't verify the originality of parts and finish, you sure can't know what you are trying to value. Needless to say, I didn't think much of how he "appraised" things.

But of course, I don't hold myself out to be an appraiser. When I write an inspection report for a pistol, I concentrate on authenticating what is correct and original. In fact, I generally encourage folks to not insist on having me put a value on something I inspect. When a value is placed on an item, it sometimes limits what a fellow might get, should he decide to sell. If he holds the pistol five years, someone might read the report and believe the pistol has not appreciated at all.

I'm convinced that an accurate report is all that is required to ensure one gets fair market value when selling. Most buyers/bidders have trouble determining what's right and what's wrong. They're lost because they don't know what they are looking at. Remove the doubt and people will bid/buy with confidence. The only thing that's really important is what the pistol is. The market will take care of the rest.

Some collectors regularly use others to authenticate for them. There's nothing wrong with that scenario, provided the person authenticating knows what he is talking about. We've seen numerous examples, however, where that apparently wasn't the case. Sadly, in some cases, I think people are too proud to pay for good information. Bad information is worse than none at all. And big names don't always equate to knowledge. Many here can cite multiple examples of refinished and misrepresented pistols being sold by folks considered to be experts, honest, etc...

So what's the best option? Spend the time it takes to learn what it takes to make your own decisions. Of course, anyone who knows anything will tell you it literally takes decades to do that. And too many people simply refuse to do the work and spend the time to learn. They want to jump right in and build collections. Looking at someone's collection is the easiest way for me to learn what someone knows. Even a blind hog turns up an acorn now and then. Such is the case with many collections I've examined. In many cases, there are more bad ones than good ones. Rarely is the collector knowledgeable enough to have all pieces to be what he thinks they are. That's a shame.

I'm not really sure I understand the comment about an appraiser having pistols for sale...or how that would somehow be a bad thing or influence his ability to be able to inspect a different pistol and offer an opinion. In my own case, for example, I own several hundred pistols of my own. On my site, I show about 750+/- examples, and some of those are not mine. Some were sent to me for inspection and documentation. I think I currently have only about 6 items for sale in my Classifieds. Only one or two of those belong to me. Some collectors send guns to me to inspect and list for sale on my site. I do the inspections and photography. Our local gun shop handles all the transfers in and out.

I've bought a few guns from Scott Meadows over the years. I've literally purchased 60+ pistols from Chuck Clawson, but never felt them having a gun or guns for sale had anything to do with what they knew. In some cases, guns were even offered to me when I shared what I was looking to buy from someone else. That's just part of collecting and networking.