Last ditch ?? Safe to fire ??

[Emri]

A customer brought in what I call one of the "last ditch" rifles. It is very crude looking. Welded barrel bands, rough surfaces, etc. Are these cast receivers like some of the German 98's that are not strong ??

Thanks,

Emri

[dave]

Never heard of a cast reciever K98k! Jap trainers had them, doubt service rifles, 'last ditch' or not had then either! That aside, I would not shoot it, I would buy a decent example to shoot and put it in collection. Some last ditch have hi collector value I understand.

[usmc69]

My response would be "Why shoot it?"

[Guamsst]

There are two types of last ditch. The book snobs version as defined by I believe Honeycutt which is a Naval Special rifle with a cast iron receiver. Then there is what the rest of the collecting and shooting world refers to as last ditch which is a rifle missing the gadgets and nice finish of early rifles and usually having a wooden buttplate.

Chances are VERY strong that your customer has a regular late war rifle. The cast receivers are VERY hard to come by. The big difference visually is that the cast receiver is thicker and the bolt locks into the barrel on closing instead of locking into the receiver. If you are unsure, it is best not to shoot it and research cast receiver naval special rifles and training rifles before making a decision to shoot it. Training rifles should never be fired with live ammo....EVER!

Crude as they may look, late war rifles are still good rifles. The same care was put into the metal work where it needed to be but all unnecessary steps were left out. A rifle with smooth barrel and perfect bluing is no more deadly than the same rifle with milling marks and a wood buttplate. But, fit, finish, bluing, adjustable sights, monopods, screws, cleaning rods, buttplates....etc take time, money and material that were critical in the last year or so of the war.

[Emri]

Thanks guys. My customer doesn't know what he wants to do with it. My response was the same as usmc69, "Why?". Thanks Guamsst for the info. Now I know this one is not cast as the barrel is screwed in and the locking surfaces are part of the receiver. I had heard about cast receivers, but wasn't sure as Jap rifles are not my area of study. I wouldn't shoot a National Ordnance or Santa Fe O3-A3 as I have seen what can happen with a cast receiver.

[psteinmayer]

My response would be "Why not shoot it?" I shoot every rifle I have at one point or another. Now, I am not a serious collector, preferring to own one or two of each rifle that I'm interested in... but I do understand about serious collecting. If that were the case, then I would want pristine examples, and never fire them. I guess it boils down to what one wants it for?

[John Sukey]

Then there are the drill rifles which were only intended to shoot blanks.
Not sure about this, but I believe the drill rifles had the tang cast as part of the reciever instead of as a seperate piece

[Guamsst]

John, the training rifles were cobbled together by MANY different makers. I have seen very little consistency but I think you may be right. I am not at home so can't check right now.

It is my firm belief that the better fit and finished training rifles are to blame for most of the fear about Jap rifles blowing up. If you can't read Kanji and don't know what it is then why wouldn't you think it was just a late war rifle? My training rifles range from very realistic to almost comical.

[Bob in Maine]

Just shot my series 27 T99. No problems.

[JimF]

I've shot (with my own handloads), what MOST people call a "Last Ditch" rifle in my modest collection.
Actually, it is a Type 99, Series 10, Torrimatsu factory of Nagoya Arsenal, rifle.
CRUDE to be sure, but it is NOT a "last-ditch"!
I call it my "Next-to-the-last ditch, last-ditch" rifle! --Jim